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Sorry tonsilsnomore I wasn't reffereing to you about jumping on people. It wasn't directed at you. The only thing really directed at you were the questions and if they sounded rude I'm sorry for that to. The questions I asked were only my openning for that post and honestly I wanted to see if they could be answered. Also, I'm not being rude but I just want to point out that soy milk and milk are two totally different things. Each is made up of different and some similar compounds and one comes from a bean the other a living breathing animal.

justmebyanyname, I'm sorry it was rude of me to call you a b&*%h but it's just because I found you to be imformative and you always sounded nice. Then one person got rude and it's almost like you climbed on the band wagon. Again I'm sorry.

I hate when people get rude, no matter who it's directed at and I'm sorry I realized in order to stop the rudeness I got a bit rude myself. I also realized in the process I said some things to some people who weren't deserving of it, so tonsilsnomore and justmebyanyname please accept my apologies.
 
Xena38 last decade
But you are apparently misinformed where the rudeness started.

Apology to me accepted but not necessary. Although I do believe another one might be in order.

It is rather insane to me that a person who posts (read their first post on page 27 2006-02-06) that they are totally stone free and how they did it is dismissed as a dairy farmer and questioned about contributing by people who continues to have tonsil stones.

I for one am going to totally flush out my tonsils, as suggested by pedro, as I know this worked for me for a long time (page 6 2006-08-19). BUT I'm going to add to the routine in hopes that I will be permanently cured as well. As soon as my syringe arrives I will flush the tonsils out TOTALLY with honey water this time and do sinus washing and ear washing. I will continue to clean my toothbrush with bacteria killing agents (namely that Orange Listerine I refuse to put in my mouth).

I really think this is the only answer for a permanent solution short of surgery.

Good Luck All!
 
justmebyanyname last decade
Ok Justme,

I was going to ignore your jabs at me just to save everyone the greif, but I think you need to BACKUP your statements about me. And have some GUTS to call me by name, instead of these veiled comments and generalities. Since I cannot tell for sure you are referring to ME, (at this point) I can only assume. And if you are not, then say so.

Ok, why dont you inform us where the "rudness started" Since you seem to know? I can tell you where it started. Look back at a few of Pedro's comments about MY ideas. Thats the place to start IMHO.

Im assuming again you are taking a stab at me, without referring to me directly as is your habit. Erroneously of course IMHO

I would like you to backup your innuendo statements about me, by posting the TIME AND DATE where I was EVER rude to anyone FIRST without PROVOCATION.

Put up or shutup, as they say :)

The only semi rude comments I ever made were in defense and jest with Pedro. You show me where I was rude to someone BEFORE Pedro came in here talking smack, then I will be convinced and apologize to everyone in here. However, Like I said before, it is proper to differ with poeple, without PUTTING people down and being RUDE. This is just debate.

If you refuse to post your proof of my "rude" posts, then please quit making latent comments about me. This is just a form of slander calling me names like "hijacker"

Your Silence to this post will mean either you cannot provide proof, or refuse to and are guilty either way. You seem to know where everything is in the forum, so bring it.

Be a man and respond directly to this post.

Thank you

BTW I too have been stone free since coming here and reading this forum as well. I Have limited (but not completely quit Dairy as I suggest that others try who are prone)

I attribute this to realizing where they originate after finding this site, then after reading SOMEONE elses post about DAIRY, I starte cutting Cottage cheese out of of my diet, 3x DAILY flushing my mouth a day with Listerine, and keeping my immunities STRONG.

I however DONT have enlarged tonsils with large crypts, PND, Or other allergies, which IMHO would make me as prone to get stones as others do in here. My suggestions are aimed at people that are CHRONIC.

LIke the other guy said its about helping the SUFFERERS find what works. So far several have already stated some of my tips have kept them stone free.
 
nomostinkbomb last decade
Justme,

I also asked you a question a few weeks back which you never responded to, since you seem to back why not check this input out?

I think you might have been onto something with the infection/anti-biotics link. Not saying ANY of these ideas we all have are SINGLE causes, but they could ALL be contributers.

Im all for removing them once they appear, but Im MORE into finding out WHY they appear. I think Pedro's idea of flushing is solid, I have posted the same thing myself as well, I think that cowboy guy a few pages back might be onto something as well with his SUCTION tool sucking them OUT. Some people have a hard time removing them even with flushing.

I think this antibiotic/infection link also needs to be pursued as a possible contributer by getting feedback from sufferers on infections/anti biotic use with stone events. Because back when I got my last stone, I had a minor tooth infection, and I believe I was taking some antibiotics as well that were left over from some other tooth infection I had had. When you mentioned this awhile back, i remembered I had a slight abcess during my last stone event.

I made the point about Rabbits how they encapsulate abcess tooth root infections with a paste that is similar to our stones IMO. It is quite possible that this is how our bodies try and gather up the infections, by creating a paste to "gather" the bad things together and keep them out of the body until they can be killed with white blood cells? and or swallowed and removed from the body (this could also be where the dead White cells in the pathology come from?)
 
nomostinkbomb last decade
nomostinkbomb,
Let me quote you directly here.

"Put up or shutup, as they say :)"

I don't care how many happy faces you put on that, I view it as rude. I've tried to be tactful. I've tried to ignore you. But, you do make it difficult. It's the same kind of thing you've said to others. :( As I trace it back, I do view this way of addressing people as the source of the current hostility. I don't think what you originally posted was meant to be deliberately rude. But I think it read that way. I think for all of us, often the emotion put into writing is not always conveyed to the reader the way we intend it.

I in no way claim to know it all. But in that same spirit of things, I don't think you do either. I think that before your many, many, many, many long repetitive postings (to which I've offered solutions - just repost the page and date of the first posting) there were many people contributing ideas that seem to now be lost in your monumental posts most of which I no longer even read or find relivant. Even if you do offer more valuable information, it is very likely to be ignored.

I appreciate that you attempt is to help others, but I think you are very resistant to input from others. When your ideas are questioned or dismissed you take it way to personally.

Also, I would almost swear that lost somewhere in the last 10 pages somewhere I read that you reduced your stones not eliminated them. What pedro is talking about and what I experienced in the past is totally getting rid of them. And I'm here to tell you that I would have to suck my eyeballs out of their socket before I ever dislodged a tonsil stone with your equalization theory. I think you are moving around ones already out of the tonsil. But...as always... whatever works for you.

Peace


Honey people,
You still out there? Cured? :)
 
justmebyanyname last decade
I found out my dad has been researching my symptoms because like me he's getting peeved off at my doctor. So yesterday when I got home from work he told me he had bought me something. What he handed me was a bottle of Omega Alpha Para-Rid. (I copied the next bit off the Omega Alpha website) Para-Rid is a herbal formula for the elimination of parasites. It combines the following Chinese herbs with the more familiar Western herbs:

Areca Catechu
Polyporus Mylittae
Rhizoma Rhei
Garlic
Pumpkin seed
Cloves and Mint
Wormwood
Green hulled Black Walnut

Parasites exist all around us as well as inside of us. In healthy individuals the number of parasites are kept to a minimum, allowing a peaceful coexistence between parasites and host.
But under stressful conditions, the host’s defences become low and can be overwhelmed by the multiplication of parasites. Toxins produced by this parasitic overgrowth can cause many chronic conditions, lowering the host’s defences even further and creating a vicious circle. It is thus important to reduce the number of parasites in the body to a minimum in order to maintain good health.

As there is always the possibility of re-infection, even after successful elimination, it is advisable to repeat the parasite cleanse every 4 - 6 months. Sources of infections may come from pets, raw food and unwashed fruits and vegetables.

Since humans do not produce the enzyme cellulase for the digestion of cellulose, Omega Alpha Pharmaceuticals have added it to Para-Rid. It is needed for the breakdown of the plant’s external cell walls consisting of cellulose, in order to increase the amount of active ingredients being extracted from the plant cells.

Therefore, Para-Rid kills and expels parasites more effectively than any other product on the market.

Does this sound like maybe it could do something for my sinuses therefore ridding me of stones? I know none of us are experts but I want some input on what you guys think of this.
I'm going to tell you a bit about my situation so you can maybe understand why I'm so upset about the rudeness. My main reason for wanting to get rid of these stones ASAP is because I have to, I'm a potential kidney donor for my mother. The problem is is neither of us can have any kind of infections when we go in for the surgery. The other problem is that one of my test results came back kind of rejecting me as a donor, I get to redo the test 2 more times, and I'm afraid whatever is ailing me and causing the stones may be what's causing the negative results (my sis is giving her liver but if I get rejected as kidney donor we're going to switch and start the testing all over). So that's why the rudeness bothers me I need a cure and we can't veto theories before they're tried or none of us will get better.
Also my name isn't Xena because of my attitude, my original nickname was Amazon. I'm a 5'11" female (I had bright red hair and bangs)and while waitressing someone mentioned that compared to all other servers I looked like an Amazon and it stuck. Then I died my hair dark brown and with the bangs I slightly resembled Xena so it switched, so it's got nothing to do with my attitude. I don't have much of an attitude but when I get stressed that all changes, so I'm sorry if/when that side shows it's face.
 
Xena38 last decade
Xena,
Take a look at the "Primal Defense" site while I look into this for you. I ordered much of that stuff, but havent used it yet because I'm still making one change at a time to ensure I know which change it was that worked.

If you look back somewhere in my posts there is a link to an NPR radio show that said something about the fact that our bodies are made up of something like for every human cell there are 10 microbes. Hope my memory is correct there! It was an unreal number in my mind, that we are possibly made up more of ten times more microbes that human cells.

I think though that if you could clear out your tonsils that would be your best bet to start! Re-read what pedro posted and/or what I posted earlier about how to do this.

I think many people THINK they have their tonsils cleared when they don't. I think the recommended finger smell test will be the best way to find the source. And don't forget the sinus wash, ear wash, toothbrush wash.

And, I dont know if I should mention it, but a positive mental state should help. You're stressed. This lowers your immune system. Think positive thoughts. Visualize your good bacteria killing off the bad bacteria. Picture them kicking butt Xena style.
 
justmebyanyname last decade
Xena,

After reading that I would check with a doctor first. I cant find a list of the ingredients.

This did make me think of one of the homeopathic remedies for our throats which was epsom salts. And while investigating it I learned it is used in much the same way.

http://www.curezone.com/cleanse/liver/huldas_recipe.asp

I think that would be safe to try while you wait to check with the doctor if you really think you have a parasite problem.

Good Luck and I'll send good thoughts your way for your mom!
 
justmebyanyname last decade
Yes you have done a great job of ignoring all my direct questions only making veiled comments about me instead. This is true.

So I take it since you didn't post any specific pages in the past (cept for my last little comment) I assume you dont have any posts where I was "rude"? Then I can assume you dont have the goods.

I figured...So now it's just how people "take" what I say.. Well maybe its THEM who are too sensitive to apposing ideas and opinions NOT me. I dont care if people dont agree with me, I just cannot handle people who put down and attack other people in the forums is all. And others in here agree with ME.

Well next time you claim to know where the "rudeness started" correcting people how are properly putting it in the right place... you should do your research a little better and not just go by your bias. And instead of just taking jabs at innocents like myself with no proof, just realize I am the victim here, and others are just wasting time and energy smack talking.

As for the long repetitive posts, some people (xenia for one) appreciate the fact that i reposted things to questions in recent threads when people were asking about the SAME things I had posted a few pages back. I was just answering THEIR questions again as Xenia also pointed out. Since as Xenia so properly put it, they entered in at the LATEST posts, and MOST dont bother going back reading from page one... if at all. So it has its place esp when people ask QUESTIONS. I will refer them back to a page as you said to make things simple for the veterans as well.

Now as for me, my STONES ARE GONE and have been for some time. I havent had a stone event for a few months. LIke I said, I personally, attribute this to rinsing DAILY with listerine 3x-5x a day, making sure the tonsils get doused pretty well, now that I know the stones are coming from Crypts in the tonsils. and watching the Dairy intak.. Esp stopping cottage cheese completely. I also have been flushing OUT my tonsils LONG before Pedro even entered the Forum. In fact I posted on how I made a flushing tool out of a syringe and pen tube using Listerine.

All is well so lets just let this drop, please dont make any more comments about me or even references about me, and my posts, and we can call it done? OK?

Also I dont think others are ignoring what I have to say, but its hard to tell since very few post replies, or even comments.
 
nomostinkbomb last decade
Xena I really hope it all works well for you and your family.....
 
tonsilsnomore last decade
*SIGH*
nomostinkbomb,
Look back at what has been posted. Read the history here. I think we all realize that you are REALLY good at writing, but I'm beginning to question your ability to read and comprehend. I think you may be relying on your memory and not what is written in black and white. I considered it unworthy of being posted the first time. Why would I repeat it? Let it goooooooo. Now, I won't be reading for about a week. So, just put what ever your response is on hold. Or maybe...miracles of miracles you could just let it die. I consider this just yet ANOTHER example of us NOT moving FORWARD! REHASHING.

And, it's no wonder fewer people post or respond. Re-read what you've written when you've responded to anyone who dares to even imply something you have posted may be incorrect. You take it personal. I consider your valuable contributions to the forum to have been the focus of earwashing and sinus washing and toothbrush washing. But, the dairy and Listerine... *sigh* I'm saying no more on that. I've already said it and already repeated it. And I hate that. :(
 
justmebyanyname last decade
Xena,
I've been thinking...if it was really important to me to be at my absolute healthiest...I'd follow a macrobiotic diet. I'm not sure how much time you have to do this, but it might be worth your looking into. Just a thought.
 
justmebyanyname last decade
Justme:

Yes Im ready to move on, and no, I wont wait, you can read this when you get back. I will cut to the quick.

First of all I had ALREADY moved on awhile back, then you came back on here making veiled comments about ME...saying someone (ME) was "HIJACKING" The thread, "scaring people off" (who?) and just today you Claim I Was to to BLAME for the RUDENESS that was going on in here? Hah!

Your attacks were not as blatent as Pedros, the past week, but still directed at me. Im sure everyone got the idea, you were just more sneaky about it. Then you come recently in making accuastions aimed at me, All the while you still fail to show the Proof of your statements?

Its YOU that need to move on and stop with the comments aimed at me. Im going to stop no matter what I have said my peace, given you an opportunity to post proof of me being "originator of rudness" which you have not.

I dont know what you expect me to do, you come in here the past weeks taking shots at me, how can I NOT respond to this? I didnt say a word to you and had tried to move on with Pedro as well. Case was closed as far as I was concerned.

Then a few posts ago, you come back in making some MORE veiled comments about ME, taking shots at me, and about my theories, and my credibilty, which was based on YOUR memory of what I have said. And you go further MOCKING my ability to read and comprehend? I can read quite well thank you.

And you base all this on a fabrication that I still am having stones (which is incorrect, I am not) Even If I had one or two, Like that would even be a cause not to think that Dairy theory was correct and still could have even caused them? Especially When I have said is that I have NOT completely QUIT dairy myself. Comprende?

Rather, I attribute this to the fact that I have been extra KEEN keeping the tonsils clean, and I dont have huge tonsils like some in here MUST have, and take EXTRA care when I consume dairy especially to flush them with listerine.

Anohter poster I found hilarious was was mocking my ideas awhile back, claming " I knew a lot for a person who had his tonsils removed!" hahahah Another fabrication! Where do you people get this stuff? hehehe


I am ready to move on if you are. So when you come back on, Please dont post anything hidden/veiled about me being rude, boring, out of touch, not credible etc.. posting things that YOU dont think are important, old not worthy of reading, whatever. I will do the same when you post about flushing the tonsils again..:) etc etc.

If anything I deserve an apology for the way I have been treated in here, from Pedro esp. and IMHO from you included.

IMHO the jury is still out on the Dairy connection...
Just because YOU think its not valid for you, this does not apply for everyone, (ask Xenia and Sweetbreath) and does not make it so. I think we need more feedback and responses from the chronics in here before we eliminate this theory. And let me say this lastly, I did NOT come up with this on my own. and have seen it Repeated on OTHER stone forums!

To the Forum:

No one has seemed to answer where the CALCIUM is coming from that help form the stones? Its got to be coming from somewhere, and if its not DAIRY? Where?
 
nomostinkbomb last decade
nomostinkbom,
dude. you need a different hobby.
 
justmebyanyname last decade
nomostinkbomb,
In all seriousness. Any person with osteoporosis I'm sure will tell you the dangers of not having enough calcium in their diet. There is even lots of calcium in broccoli. We can not eliminate calcium from our diets. This is not even a logical. So, it really doesn't matter were the calcium comes from. What does that matter? And, I'm sorry, but I do not see how it could possibly even remotely have ANYTHING to do with tonsil stones.

And seriously. If dairy was the source of tonsil stones then my stopping dairy should have ended my stone production and my increasing dairy intake should have increased stone production. I think we had dismissed this idea before you even posted on the forum the first time. And don't even post again the definition of dairy again, assuming that I don't know what dairy is. I even read labels for lactose, whey, etc.

But, sulfer. The smell of tonsil stones. Now that is a question I feel worthy of addressing. I've asked that question and wish you would answer it. Honestly. Have you read any of what I've written in the past? Take the week and review for me please.
 
justmebyanyname last decade
nomostinkbombs has been banned. I'm aware that he's probably not the only offender, and if anyone thinks anyone else should be banned, please let me know:

http://www.abchomeopathy.com/contact.php

"Waste not thy time in windy argument, but let the matter drop"
 
moderator last decade
Thanks everyone I appreciate the concern for my families well being.
I'm also sorry for some of the tension I may have caused. Like I've said I don't deal well with rudeness, but I promise for next time I'll keep my comments to myself unless a direct comment is made to me. The person I originally defended soon turned into the person I wanted to defend everyone else from. I figured for the well being of everyone I'll just shut up and let things take it's course and now it's been taken care of. So again I can't stress how sorry I am.
justme thanks for the macrobiotic diet reccomendation I'm going to look into as soon as I get a free moment. I'm willing to try anything that sounds safe and I totally believe in homeopathy so no fears here. I have started the para-rid yesterday, I have to take it for 7 days, stop for 4 and do it again for 7. I'll let everyone know if I notice any changes in my sinuses and stone formation.
Thanks everyone for your patience with me I wouldn't know what to do if I didn't have this forum to refer to, you've been big helps.
 
Xena38 last decade
Wow, it is still amazing that you guys are still fighting over words. They were said and now it is over. THIS IS A PLACE WHERE WE CAN COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER, NOT CUT EACH OTHERS THROATS OFF. Please guys just stop the stupid nonsense and lets get back to trying to help each other out.


My question would be, what causes a post nasal drip? if that is what my doctor said i have and causes these stones, then what can cure a drip. I know when I took claratin for 2 weeks I barely saw any stones. As soon as I stopped (b/c it's expensive)I took the side brand of an allergy medicine and they go away every once in a while. So I think if we can find a way to stop the Post Nasal Drip, then we may be able to get rid of the stones.

Now that may help me, and maybe some others, but I am not sure about everyone else.
 
jointhecrowd last decade
uggh I hate those nasty things! My family all thinks I am gross when I try picking them out, with a qtip. I had one today on my hangy ball thingy, so I tried to squeeze it off of there gently but my throat hurts now but then again the stinky thing is gone now! YAY!
 
kara7282 last decade
My tonsils started to inflame about three weeks ago, with my left tonsil swelling a lot more than the right - it wasn't painful so I didn't bother going to the doctor (especially since my doctor is a jackass). Last week I noticed a small white pustule on my left tonsil, it has doubled in size since and swallowing just became quite painful about an hour ago - any advice?
 
Sarcaustic last decade
I have found an expensive way to suction the white spots. Get an eye dropper bottle from the pharmacist and fill it with half hydrogen peroxide and half water. Before using each time, rinse the peroxide off. Squeeze the dropper, put into the hole where the white spots hide and then let go. With practice you can suction the white spots. After getting rid of the large ones, I only get small ones now because I do it often.

I have also been taking zinc and I believe my permanently swollen tonsil is starting to get smaller. (My eczema is starting to fade). Note that if you take too much zinc it will compromise your immune system, but for women 19 years and older it is not harmful to take 40 mg a day. I found that info on internet.
 
DollyDolly last decade
ive read back over afew pages on what some ppl have said in regards to stones.

xena i think u mentioned how u said 'do u feel how the milk coates ur tongue and throat", well that made sense to me. i have full cream milk on my cereal in the morning, and i certainly feel its too creamy for my mouth. then even one hr later i get smelly breath and a tight feeling in my mouth or throat.its hard to describe.

i dont drink alot of water too to flush it down. so i guess the milk just sits there breaking down.

someone mentioned also thats stones cause a coated tongue and no amount of brushing the tongue stops the coating. i find i have this too. im tired of repeating 3-4 times a day to no avail when i have to dig every 3rd day or so. i have been digging for 13 yrs without a break, they are constantly there! what if my future boyfriend finds me digging my throat out and hacking!! what a turn off.
lm going to buy a long syringe and fill it with listernine orange and flush out my crypts.

also there is a fluid like stone puss that comes out, that does sound like an infection of the LINING of the crypt itself.so the epithelial cells lining the crypt is imflammed. does that make sense.??
i think if we help heal the crypt of puss (white cells ie leukocytes, macrophages is a phagocytic cell particularly abundant in lymphatic and connective tissues.its important as an antigen-presenter to T cells and B cells in the immune response.) yes i think i could be onto something here. crypts ARE meant to be there, tonsils are porus.

and the stones are aka CALCULUS in medical terminology. as in gall bladder calculus which i also have!! haha full of stones i am
 
peperonimum last decade
hi people,

You have know idea how pleased i am to find out that i am not alone. I suffer from loads of 'holes' in my tonsills, which like to trap those nasty white lumps. Recently the holes have started to grow bigger and my tonsills occassionaly bleed. The frist time i went to see my doctor she took swabs of my saliva and a sample of the 'lumps' but the results were fine so she just told me to use mouthwash. As i said above the holes are increasing in size and they occassionaly bleed so i went back to see the doctor so she has referred me to see a specialist to talk about whether or not i need them removed. Does anyone actually know what they are or what causes them?? Any help would be appriciated...Thanks X
 
eselenna last decade
I suffered from post nasal drip and a ton of mucus for many years. It caused lots of stones. My ENT told me to have the tonsils removed but I did not listen to him because I have heard it hurts a lot.
My allergist said I have non allergic rhinitis and he told me to eliminate all the foods and avoid anything that trigger the mucus and PND. He also had me use a inhaler which did help but I did not want to use it for the rest of my life. So, I stopped consuming dairy because I knew it was causing a lot of mucus and switched to soy milk. So, the PND and mucus started slowing down and now I only get mucus occasionally but due to other reasons. Even if I consume a little cheese or any other dairy organic or not once in a while I have noticed that I don't get the mucus/PND anymore. The PND was also being caused by smog, strong perfumes, smoke and other allergens. Also, I had noticed that as soon as I would get into bed I would start coughing and my throat would itch and immediately I would have a lot of mucus. So, I started changing my pillow case once every week and in addition to this I started drinking a lot of orange juice to strengthen my immune system and guess what? I don't have this itchy throat problem anymore. I see a very tiny stone maybe like once every 1 1/2 or 2 months as opposed to large stones once every few weeks. But I do get a little mucus a couple times during the month and I monitored this for a few months... so the conclusion is that hormones seem to be causing this. Because it happens during ovulation time and also around the periods. Have any other women on this forum noticed a problem like this?

Also these days I have been practicing a sinus cleaning technique. A Indian friend of mine told me to try it and it has helped a lot. In the beginning it made me gag and it took a while for me to get used to it. It's like trying to induce vomitting. You put the index and middle fingers way back in your mouth (as far back as it can go) then press down your tongue with both the fingers and rub the tongue in a forward/backward motion and before you start gagging you should stop and then try to spit out the stuff that collects in your throat. When I do this especially when I have mucus I see a lot of gross stuff come out. Sometimes it is like yellow or brown in color - yuck! I do this at least 3-4 times a day - first thing when I get up in the morning and after every meal. This will also clean your tongue in the back.
 
starz last decade
To jointhecrowd,
Do you suffer from bad breath and does it come out through your nasal passages?

To everyone else,
Do you know anyone that suffers from PND and has had their tonsils removed but still suffers from bad breath? If you know please answer. If not, answer me aswell but don't leave me hanging and not answer.
 
man-man last decade
Man Man I had PND also and I just had my tonsils removed and I have not had any sinus problems within the past two weeks, my PND is almost completely clear and again my tongue which was ALWAYS covered white no matter how long or how hard I brushed and it didn't matter what toothpaste I used my tongue stayed covered in that Sulfer.

I have noticed a major difference in the way my mouth feel and taste.

I wished I would have done this earleir...

The judge is still out on the bad breath because my dr says you will have bad breath for about 15 days until your tonsils are completley healed....

As far as I know I probably just have regular bad breath not the deathly kind I used to have....
 
tonsilsnomore last decade

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