bedwetting in child _{Page 3 of 6}

Do you have Kent Repertory?

There are 48 remedies indicated for grinding of teeth, and Calc is grade 2.

Grade 2 means the remedy cured that condition in considerable number of patients.

What else do you want?

Materia medicas are by compulsion brief, and doesn't list out all symptoms brought out in provings. Added to it, there are clinical confirmations too. More over each author has his his unique way of telling, and not all books cover all points. That is why you have to read many MMs for understanding a remedy comprehensively.

A homeopath can never do good work, if he depends exclusively on MMs. He should have reportorial knowledge too. The corollary also is true.

The MM,philosophy and repertory are the three basic tools for a homeopath.
One should master all the three to become a good homeopath.

First of all forget about worms, and concentrate on the symptoms as expressed by the patient's father.

The worms are neither seen nor any pathological reports are available.It is a mere surmise.As told earlier the connection between grinding of teeth and worms is a folklore story handed over by grand mothers from one generation to the other.

Show me a single study that
conects grinding of teeth with worms. I too was under that impression so far, searched the net extensively, but am unable to find a solid reference.

If you know any good reference, please let me know.

Murthy

Hi Sriram

our posts croseed.

Let me see Kent once again to find the para quoted by you.

Wow.

It brought out an unexpected result.!!

********

Calcarea has a kind of indigestion, a fermentation that favors the formation of worms, so that Calcarea babies are sometimes wormy.

Pass worms in the stool, and vomit worms. Calcarea so corrects this indigestion, when the symptoms agree, that worms no longer hatch out. The symptoms disappear, and we really wonder what becomes of the worms.

The idea with the homoeopathic physician is not to give vermifuges, but to so correct the digestion that worms will not thrive; and it is true that worms will not thrive in the healthy stomach and intestines. Whether they leave by expulsion or whether they are destroyed, or what becomes of them, I do not know.

To remove them by physicking them out, and by vermifuges, only makes a bad matter worse, because it increases the indigestion, it increases the turmoil. So it is with all worms in the stomach and rectum; all those worms will come if they are favored with just exactly the right kind of fluids to hatch out in.

They come, and they grow. I suppose at least twenty-five times in the last twenty years have I known Calcarea to bring away tape worm, and in most instances I did not know it was present; but I simply prescribed for the patient. I was not aware of its existence. It is so with many remedies, but this more than others.

********

Though I read Kent many times ,I forgot about this. It is difficult to remember every thing despite frequent reading. :-)

******
Grinding the teeth. A child in sleep, chews and swallows and grinds the teeth.
******

Yes. Grinding too tis there in the last para.

I hope Rajendra will be satisfied now. :-)

blank">http://www.homeoint.org/books3/kentmm/calc.htm

Murthy

Hi Murty, Thanks for the reference in Kent's reporatory. Bedwetting is not there but it is there in Dr. Boeriche.

I am, however, interested to know the reasons of selection of Calc. Carb instead of Cina or Cuprum Oxydatum Nigrum which are recognized remedies for worms?

It is because I am not convinced about the worms causing grinding of teeth/bed wetting theory.

It is because the repeterisation favours Calc.carb.

It is because the MMs too confirm the medicine for the symptoms the patient is having.

it is because we chose a medicine based on the symptoms available, and the medicine is not contraindicated, in case some other symptoms of the medicine is not present in the patient. No single person will have all the symptoms included in the materia medica.

Murthy

I didn't understand the word 'recognised' remdies for worms.

There are many remedies for worms.

Rectum, worm, complaints :

acon., all-c., ars., calc., carb-v., chim., cic., cina., dol., ferr., fil., graph., ign., merc., nat-m., nat-p., nux-m., nux-v., petr., ruta., sabad., scil., sec., sil., sin-n., spig., spong., stann., sulph., ter.,
teucr., verat.

Rectum, worm, ascarides : abrot., acet-ac., acon., agn., ant-t., ars., asar., bar-c., bar-m., calc., carb-s., chin., cina., crot-t., cupr., ferr-m., ferr., gran., graph., grat., ign., indg., mag-c., mag-s., merc., nat-m., nat-p., nux-v., phos., plat., rat., sabad., scil., sep., sil., sin-n., spig., spong., sulph., tell., ter., teucr., thu., urt-u., valer.

Rectum, worm, lumbricoides : acon., all-s., anac., ars., asar., bar-c., bell., calc., carb-s., cham., chel., cic., cina., ferr-s., gran., graph., hyos., kali-c., lyc., mag-c., merc., nat-m., nux-v., rhus-t., ruta., sabad., sec., sil., spig., stann., sulph., ter.

Rectum, worm, tæniæ : ail., arg-n., calc., carb-an., carb-s., carb-v., chin., cupr., fil., form., frag-v., graph., grat., Kali-c., mag-m., merc., nat-c., nux-v., petr., phos., plat., puls., sabad., sep., sil., stann., sulph., ter., thu.

There are 8 medicines in Kent that covers the above types of worms.

ter. sulph. sil. sabad. nux-v. merc. graph. calc.

Cina is grade 1 for ascarides, and grade 2 for lubmricoides, but is not indicated in taeniae.

Other repertories might have added a few more like cuprum oxidatum nigrum for some other specific type of worms.

But, as I tell repeatedly, these worm medicines are to be thought about, if they are seen either crawling out or,if found in the stool.

Then they deserve to be included in the symptoms list.

In the absence of a clearcut indication for worms, it can't be taken as a symptom.

Murthy

Mr. Murty.
Thanks.

Your observations are :-

'It is because the repeterisation favours Calc.carb.

'It is because the MMs too confirm the medicine for the symptoms the patient is having. '


By MMs you mean as :-

'Mentals / Generals / Particulars (MGP)'

Symptoms of the patient are :-

1. Bed wetting and grindng of teeth.

She is weak with sensitive &emotional nature urination occurs after 1 hr of sleep then 2 or 3 times after that.
She does not feel ashamed as we never scolded her.
She was suffering from acute constipation by birth but now constipation is cured,but bedwetting did not.bedwetting is also from birth.'

Kindly enlighten me how to put the above facts in the 'repertorisation' to conclude for Calc. Carb.

Further you mentioned about the following worms:-

'Ascarid As'ca*rid, n.; pl. Ascaridesor Ascarids. [NL.
ascaris, fr. Gr. ?.] (Zo['o]l.)
A parasitic nematoid worm, espec. the roundworm, Ascaris
'lumbricoides, often occurring in the human intestine, and
allied species found in domestic animals; also commonly
applied to the pinworm (Oxyuris), often troublesome to
children and aged persons.

'taenia' - tapeworms parasitic in humans which uses the pig as its intermediate host'

May I refer the following site for your kind observation:-

CINA MARITIMA - HOMOEOPATHIC MATERIA MEDICA - By William BOERICKEHelmintochortos-Worm-moss (acts very powerfully on intestinal worms, especially the lumbricoid).

I feel Tape worm is as indicated in the above link.

Shall be glad to be benefitted by your knowledge.

...........

Further it looks to me that ultimately Homeopathy will also go to the Software Engineers rather then the Homeo doctors.

Do you agree.

Sorry, it is -
Last para of this site:-

cina.htm" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://homeoint.org/books/boericmm/c/cina.htm

Dear Rajendra

What I mean by MM is Materia Medica.

There are different methods of takng a case.

The boeninghausen method is one of them.

In this method more weightage is given to the locality, sensation, modality and comcomitant aspects, and it works beautifully for most of the physical problems.

Regarding the softwares doing the job of homeopaths, Let me make it clear that they are of immense help to the physician to wade through the vast homeopathic literature/reperteries in a convenient way.

However, the saying

Rubbish in, rubbish out is true here too, as with any software.

The fundamentals are to be understood first, and the software is only a help to help to reduce the physical drudgery.

Suppose, I want to find the para regarding 'grinding of teeth' in Kent's description of calc, I can search for it in the computerised version, in a few seconds.

If you start reading the text, you may miss it altogether as it is there in the last para, as a passing remark.

The computer and softwares did help the homeopath tremedously. The internet too is a big help. See how easily, we are able to share the information.

So, a good homeopathic physician, who is adept in using the softwares too, will be more succesful, and will accomplish more in less time.

Murthy

Hi,

I have gone through the
boeninghausen Method.

I could not find Grinding of teeth and bed wetting there.

Can you please enlighten me know as to from which method or Software and how you picked up this thread of Calc. Carb ?

My other points of my earlier mail are awaiting yiur kind attention.

Boeninghasen method can be used with any repertory/combination of reperories.

I gave a very detailed analysis of the way I chose calc.carb.

I can't do any better than that.

Murthy

these symptoms are from boger boeninghausen repertory.

teeth - grinding, gnashing, grating, etc.
acon. agar. ant-c. apis arg-n. arn. ars. bar-c. bell. borx. bov. calc. camph. canth. caust. cham. cic. cina coff. colch. con. crot-h. cupr. cycl. ferr. hyos. ign. kali-br. kali-c. lyc. merc. merc-i-f. nux-m. nux-v. phos. phyt. plb. podo. psor. sec. sep. stram. tab. verat. vip. zinc.
urine - micturition - urination - involuntary
acon. am-c. ant-t. arg-met. arn. ars. bar-m. bell. bry. calc. canth. carb-an. carb-v. caust. cham. chin. cic. cina cocc. con. dig. dulc. ferr. ferr-p. graph. hep. hyos. ign. kreos. lach. laur. lyc. mag-c. merc. mur-ac. nat-m. nit-ac. nux-v. petr. ph-ac. phos. plan. puls. rhus-t. ruta seneg. sep. sil. spig. squil. stram. sulph. tarax. verat. zinc.
sajjad.

urine - micturition - urination - involuntary - night in bed (bed-wetting)
acon. am-c. arn. ars. bar-c. bell. benz-ac. bry. calc. carb-v. caust. cham. chin. cina con. dulc. ferr. ferr-p. graph. hep. hyos. ign. kali-c. kali-p. kreos. lyc. merc. nat-m. nux-v. op. petr. ph-ac. phos. plan. puls. rheum rhus-t. ruta sabal seneg. sep. sil. spig. staph. stram. sulph. tub.

Mr. Murty,

I agree that you have done lot of efforts to identify Calc. carb. but since we have been discussing many issues on this platform it is our desire that we should also share with your knowledge and method of identifying this Calc.carb.

Thanks in advance for your response.

These are the medicines for

Teeth, grinding : (Kent)

acon., ant-c., apis., arn., ars., art-v., asaf., atro., aur., bar-c., bell., bry., calc., camph., canth., carb-ac., caust., cham., cic., cina., coff., colch., con., crot-h., cupr., grat., hell., hyos., ign., laur., Lues., lyc., lyss., merc., morph., nux-v., op., phos., plb., podo., sec., sep., stram., sulph., tab., thu., verat., zinc.

Most of them are grade 2, apis, bell and hyos being grade three.

If you add

Bedwetting( general rubric)(Murphy) to this, the COMMON medicines are

Apis,Arn,ars,bell,calc,caust,cham,cina,lyc,merc,podo,sep,sulph.

To narrow down our choice we have to get some more prominent symptoms; not surmises.

If we add constipation, childern(grade 2 and above) to it, the choice reduces to

calc,cham,lyc,podo and sepia.

If we add deep sleep to it our choice is limited to

calc,podo and sepia.

When we add copious urination to it, the choice narrows down to Calc and podo.

calc is generally indicated for childern, and hence we can try it first.

Podo can be our second choice.

Let me know your views.

Murthy

***********

This is my earlier post. This is how medicines are selected by using the repertories.

First note down the medicines for a particular rubric.

Now, note down the medicines indicated for the second most prominent symptom, and choose the medicines common to both the rubrics.

Note down the medicines for the third symptom. Now select the medicines common to all the three rubrics.

Note down the medicined for the fourth rubric. Now select the medicines common to all the four rubrics.

Stop doing it when the choice comes down to two or three. Make sure that there are no contraindications in the case for these two or three medicnes.

If you find any modalities( that are strong) opposing any of the above selected two or three medicines, eliminate them, and select those only which seem to fit the totality.

After selecting the most probable medicine, we once again read the MMs to see whether the totality fits.

Murthy

mr.murty,

thanks for the excellent way of identifying the remedy.

i have another querry:

when i compared the four parameters i also find that the following are common:-

acon., ars., bar-c., bell.,calc., caust., con., ., hyos., merc., sep., stram.,
(out of this you have ignored bell. and hyos. being grade 3.)

stiil the following remains:-

acon., ars., bar-c.,calc.,
caust., con., merc., sep., stram.,


details are below :-


grinding, gnashing, grating, etc. :-

acon., agar., ant-c., apis, arg-n., arn., ars., bar-c., bell., bor., bov., calc., camph., cann-s., canth., caust., cham., cic., cina, coff., colch., con., crot-h., cupr., cycl., ferr., hyos., ign., kali-br., kali-c., lyc., merc., merc-i-f., nux-m., nux-v., phos., phyt., plb., podo., psor., sec., sep., stram., tab., verat., vip., zinc

night in bed (bed-wetting) :-

acon., am-c., arn., ars., bar-c., bell., benz-ac., bry., calc., carb-v., caust., cham., chin., cina, con., dulc., ferr., ferr-p., graph., hep., hyos., ign., Kali-c., kali-p., kreos., lyc., merc., nat-m., nux-v., op., petr., ph-ac., phos., plan., puls., rheum, rhus-t., ruta, sabal., seneg., sep., sil., spig., staph., stram., sulph., tub.

constipation :-

acon., alum., am-c., am-m., ambr., anac., ant-c., arn., ars., asaf., asar., aur., bar-c., bell., bov., bry., calc., cann-s., canth., caps., carb-v., card-m., caust., chel., chin., cina, cocc., coff., colch., coll., coloc., con., crot-h., daph., dig., dulc., ferr., graph., grat., guai., hep., hydr., hyos., iod., kali-bi., kali-c., kreos., lach., laur., led., lyc., mag-c., mag-m., mang., meny., merc., mez., nat-m., nit-ac., nux-v., olnd., op., petr., ph-ac., phos., plat., plb., psor., puls., rhod., rhus-t., ruta, sabad., sabin., sars., sel., seneg., sep., sil., spong., squil., stann., staph., stram., sul-ac., sulph., thuj., verat., verb., zinc.

sound (deep) :-

acon., agn., alum., anac., ant-c., ant-t., ars., bar-c., bell., bor., bry., calc., camph., caust., cham., chin., cic., cocc., con., croc., cupr., cycl., dig., hell., hyos., ign., kali-bi., kreos., laur., led., merc., mgs., petr., ph-ac., phos., plb., puls., rhod., rhus-t., ruta, sabad., sec., sel., seneg., sep., spig., stann., stram., sulph., verat., zin


as an expert in technology also, can you please enlighten me if there is any formula/software to extract common remedies from the above as reading one by one all the medicine takes time even through 'edit' method.

thanks a lot again.

There are softwares like Hompath, and Radar which allow you to select the rubrics from various repertories, and the software does the drudgery work for you, and brings out the remedies that are common to all the symptoms to the fore.

These softwares cost in the range of Rs 10,000 to Rs. 25,000, dependind on the complexities you need to handle.

We have a free Remedy Finder which is also a good software at ABC. Try it out.

Murthy

Thanks.

From the above list the items common on all four items are :-

Acon.
Bell.
Bry.
Calc.
Caust.
Con.
Hyos.
Merc.
Stram.
Sulph.

'Podo';is not there in oher three.

How the others get eliminated?

Kindly enlighten me.

We are refering different rubrics from different repertories.

There is no common ground to compare.

Bedwetting is a specific rubric in Murphy. Kent doesn't have this rubric directly, but you are trying to arrive at it indirectly, which is causing the confusion.

As far as possible the exact rubric is to be chosen, if available.

To do this you need to have access to more than one repertory.

I have Kent, Boericke, Boger, Boeninghasen, Murphy
repertories.

Murthy

in these cases the mental attitude and behaviour helps to select the right remedy.
1 1234 1 teeth - grinding 85
2 1234 1 bladder - urination - involuntary - night 154
3 1234 1 rectum - constipation - children; in 32
4 1234 1 sleep - deep 250
5 1234 1 bladder - urination - frequent 293



calc. caust. lyc. nux-v. op. sep. sulph. podo. bry. cham. plb. verat.
5/12 5/12 5/11 5/11 5/11 5/11 5/11 5/10 5/8 5/8 5/8 5/8
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1: 2 2 2 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
2: 2 3 1 1 2 3 3 2 1 2 1 1
3: 3 2 3 3 3 2 1 2 1 2 2 1
4: 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 2 3
5: 3 3 3 3 2 2 3 2 2 1 1 1

Mr. Murty & others,

So is it correct that different people (Drs. and advisors) refer different rubrics from different repertories and also out of their personal experience.
They may or may not match your reporatories and experience.

It is on this basis the results are different -
e.g CUPRUM OXYDATUM NIGRUM 1X (FOR ALL KINDS OF WORMS INCLUDING TAPEWORMS AND TRICHINOSIS according to Dr. Zopfy's 60 years experience) is a remedy suggested in the Materia Medica of Dr. Boeriche (Last para (Comparision) Refer following :-

cupr.htm " rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://homeoint.org/books/boericmm/c/cupr.htm

But this medicine is hardly there in the all the Materia Medica .

It does not mean that the opinion given by other Doctor or advisor is/was wrong.

I initially thought that there is some fundamental mistake that all of us are doing as when one advisor gave an opinion your computer gave a different opinion and that has been creating confusion in the mind of viewers.

I had long discussions on the issue and gathered inormation from your vast technial experience just to arrive home the above point or to correct ourselves.

Kindly correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,

RSG

Dear Rajendra

We are prescribing for bedwetting.

You are prescribing for worms.

Both are different issues.

There is no meeting ground.

Murthy

Even Boericke talks only about worms, and not bed wetting.

There are many medicines in boericke ,where he refers to bedwetting specifically.

Don't you think he would have mentioned 'bedwetting due to worms' while discussing your favourite medicne, had it been the case?

Murthy

This is from Boericke's repertory

INVOLUNTARY (See Bladder.) -- Alum., Arg. n., Arn., Ars., Bell., Calc. c., Caust., Cina, Dulc., Echin., Equis., Ferr. m., Gels., Hyos., Kali Br., Kreos., Op., Petrol., Puls., Rhus ar., Rhus t., Ruta, Sabal, Saponin, Sars., Selen., Senega, Sil., Solan. lyc., Sul., Uva, Xerophyl.

Night [at] (See Enuresis.) -- Ars., Bell., Calc. c., Caust., Cina, Kali br., Kreos., Plant., Puls., Rhus t., Senega, Sep., Sil., Sul., Uva.
Sleep [during first] -- Kreos., Sep.
Coughing, sneezing, walking, laughing [when] -- Bell., Calc. c., Canth., Caps., Caust., Ferr. m., Ferr. mur., Ferr. p., Ign., Kali c., Nat. m., Puls., Scilla., Selen., Sul., Vib. op., Xerophyl., Zinc.
Dreaming of act [when] -- Equis., Kreos.
Consciousness of [without] -- Apoc., Arg. n., Caust., Sars.

Where is your favourite in this?

My search says there is no 'bed wetting' rubric in Boericke.

Let me know if you find it.

Murthy

This is what SBL says regarding worms, while discussing a combination containing Cuprum Oxydatum nigrum.
**************
Cures the signs and symptoms accompanying worms infestation e.g. painful abdomen, teeth grinding, fatigue, itching in the rectum, abdominal distension, abnormal appetite, anaemia, malnutrition and retarded growth in children.

http://www.madanapalas.com/wormorid-250-tablets-p-328.html

********

Though I don't subscribe to the idea of these combinations, the above is brougt out to bring home the point that bedwetting and worms are not synonymous.

While I agree that there can be some cases where bet wetting and worms can be found simultaneously, it is possible that one problem can
be there without the other.

We can't conclude that all cases of bedwetting are due to worms, even when coupled with teeth grinding.


Murthy

The closese Boericke comes to bed wetting in his materia medica is

Causticum:

Involuntary during first sleep at night

Sepia:

Involuntary urination, during first sleep.

Equisetum:

Incontinence in children, with dreams or night-mares when passing urine.

There may be many more references.

But he talks about Cuprum Oxydatum Nigrum being useful for worms, as a passing reference while discussing Cuprum Metallicum.

Murthy

Dear Murthy,

The concept of first sleep(first part of the night) is almost gone.
Children sleep well after midnight.

sajjad.