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The ABC Homeopathy Forum

Severe E on 10yo girl - Pls help

Hi Dr Kuldeep, Pankaj, Gavin...
Could you pls help my 10 years old daughter who's suffered from severe e (full body - head to toe e) since July 2006. We've tried so many things and i have to say that Steroids helped a lot but the problem is we can't wean her off them. So we tried homeopathy (only 1 visit with the homeopath so far, will see her again next week).

My daughter was prescribed with Carcinosin LM2 (1 drop of Carcinosin diluted in 2 glasses of water, then 1 drop under the tongue twice a day). Soon after taking the medicine, her e got worse (don't if it's because of the medicine or bcs we skipped oil bath) and so we diluted further and down to LM5 (5 glasses of water) 5 days ago. She showed some improvement for 2 days after that (slept better, less red, less rashes). But then on the same day of LM5, we used some Eczema cream (Hope's Relief cream for Eczema and Psoriasis) on her face and arms and legs'flexures together with Calendular cream (because we wanted to get her off Steroids for good). We didn't realise that in Hope's Relief cream there are some homeopathic stuff which are Sulphur 6C, Graphites 6C and Rhus Tox 6C. We also skipped her daily oil bath (we went somewhere for our holidays), replacing with a 2-3' shower followed by wet wraps as normal. Anyhow, her skin got very dry and itchy again. She couldn't sleep at night and scratched so much her skin got infected with Staph aureus (lumpy oozing red spots all over her body, esp where she scrathed the most - shoulder, chest, back, lower tummy). Her skin touched and looked tight and inflamed, cracks on her neck (swollen abit) and arms flexures, painful. Also, she got eczema (pimples) in her palms too, the first time, very very itchy. I've been giving her Antibiotics for the infection but still used Hopes cream for nearly half of her body 1 more night(where there were cracks and raw). Just stopped Carcinonsin LM5 since last night, and realised about the homeopathic ingredients in the Hope's cream this morning, so will stop as well.
Last night (2nd days of infection), very strangely, she was not itchy much in the body and neck and face, scalp as usual but her 2 feet got really really itchy (10/10) without any obvious lesions, no pimples like the palms. She asked me to rub and squeeze her feet nearly whole night.

My questions are:
1/ is that an aggravation, if so from what, Carcinosin or the other ingredients in the cream?
2/ What should i do now? do we need st to counter this effect?
3/ Is homeopath safe? (sorry for asking this but i don't know anything abt homeopath)
4/ What should I expect to see in a homeopathy treatment process?

I can't contact my homeopath (she's on holidays) and also would like a second opinion. I'm completely ignorant abt homeopath so pls bear with me. If you need more info, pls let me know. Thank you in advance for your help and I'm looking forward to hearing from you soon.
  CAKmum on 2007-01-01
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
Is she still taking the steroids while the latest treatment is being done?

Has anyone provided you with an adequate explanation as to why she has such severe eczema in the first place?
ZepOz last decade
1/Is she still taking the steroids while the latest treatment is being done?

Yes but very sparingly (Bethametasone 0.02% (celestone)and momethasone (elocon)), thin layer only on the very red spots. I checked with the Homeopath when we first met her and she said 'carry on everything as normal'. For the rest of her body, I used calendular cream and moisturiser only.

2/Has anyone provided you with an adequate explanation as to why she has such severe eczema in the first place?

She's had eczema since birth but very very mild (few red spots on her cheeks when she was a few months old and the usual eczema spots in the crooks of her arms, neck, wrists and the crooks of her legs when she was a bit older, but she's got itchy scalp all the time, and nothing cam help). I only had to use steriods one or two times a year. Apart from that, we didn't do any allergy tests on her.

Since June 06 after alot of swimming sessions her skin gradually got dry and more rashes appeared on her face and body. Steroids helped clear eczema but only for a few days and they came back again. Our family doctor prescribed oral steroids for her and right after two courses she got full body flare-up and her eczema was quite out of control.
She's been under the care of a dermatologist since August, a naturopath since October, and recently a kinesiologist and a homeopath. She was also admitted to hospital for ten days in Sept 06 where they did oil baths and wetwraps for her which was helpful.

We've done all basic things about eczema for her. The chemical test came back negative and we are waiting for the food test in mid-March. In short, we don't know what she's allergic to yet. We put her on a basic food diet for one month without outstanding improvement. At the moment, she's following a low acidic (salicylate acid) food diet under the naturopath's instructions. We also try to limit her intake of other common food allergy (wheat products, dairy food, nuts, beef, seafood...etc).

To me, in the first place, the chlorine and the oral steroids are responsible for her severe eczema but now I'm not sure what aggravates it now.
I have to say that we used steroids very sparingly and maybe thats why her eczema kept coming back. It is because in the treatment process, we found out that her eye pressure was abnormally high (20-22mmHg compared to 16 for the normal reading) which maybe a side-effect of steroids (her eyes had been checked on a regular basis due to the near-sightedness)
I hope it answers your questions. Thanks for your response.
CAKmum last decade
Were there any other changes to her diet or daily procedures at the same time as she started taking the oral steroids? What were these oral steriods the doctor prescribed?

Without having any allergy tests done, how do you know if she is not allergic to something in her environment, or something she is eating, or something she is touching?

What was this 'chemical test' you speak of? Who did that testing?

I take it you do know what salicylate acid actually is?

Abnormally high eye pressure - glaucoma - can be caused by many things, not just allergies, but it is always important to have that condition seen to promptly by competent medical help. Not being treated properly or early enough can lead to permanent blindness. You are quite correct about prolonged use of steroids exacerbating glaucoma.
ZepOz last decade
1/Were there any other changes to her diet or daily procedures at the same time as she started taking the oral steroids? What were these oral steriods the doctor prescribed?

Redipred (Prednisolone) is the oral steroid we used. The dr prescribed it when I complained the topical Steroids didn’t help and she was scratching herself bald in the eyebrows. I have to admit we didn’t know much and didn’t do much abt her eczema until it got worse in July last year. Back then, we didn’t have any special diet or daily procedures except for moisturisers from time to time. So no changes made as far as I can remember.

2/Without having any allergy tests done, how do you know if she is not allergic to something in her environment, or something she is eating, or something she is touching?

I said I don’t know what she’s allergic to yet. The kinesiologist tested and said “her e is related to beef, cauliflower and zucchini” but the way she tested is a bit strange to me. Also, my daughter had been on a diet for a while at the time the test was done, and so maybe some food allergies didn’t have a chance show up. It’s interesting that she had abstained from beef for quite some time and the kinesiologist nearly missed it if I didn’t raise the question, also she rarely eats zucchini and had had cauliflower a few days before. Anyway, they are out of her diet for now.
I don’t notice any obvious e breakout/aggravation on her in relation to contact allergy. For her washing and bathing, it’s just water and soap, shampoo types for e (since young). Environmentally, her e gets worse in hot, humid or dry weather; her skin tends to be dry. We have carpet in the house, a big garden…and so are waiting for more allergy tests in Mar. Anyway, we do everything that are supposed to be good for e including dust-mite free, air conditioned, air filtered, humidified bedroom, Sensitive Omo washing liquid for washing with hot water and double rinse, 100% cotton clothings and beddings, irritants avoidance, naturopath medicines (fish oil, ultra-flora, Zinc, vitamines…). She’s also taken some liver detoxification capsules.

3/What was this 'chemical test' you speak of? Who did that testing?

It’s the patch test done by the dermatologist. It consists of all the commonly used chemicals in cosmetic/household/pharmaceutical products (hydrocortisone included). I have the list of the tested chemicals for our record. Food test and other allergens test will be done in Mar by a immunologist.

4/I take it you do know what salicylate acid actually is?

All I know is that is one type of acid (main ingredient of Aspirin) found in most fresh fruits and that in general, acidic food diet is not good for e, they need an alkaline food diet. Don’t quite understand why it’s just the high salicylate acid food that the naturopath wanted to restrict (got a food chart from him). Also confused because the charts of high acidic/alkaline food are different from source to source, sometimes contradicting.

5/ Abnormally high eye pressure - glaucoma - can be caused by many things...

We happened to find out her high eye pressure in a routine visit with the ophthalmologist (for her myopia check). Since then, she’s been checked regularly, every 1-2 weeks at first and now every month (will see him again in mid Jan). The dr in the first visit said it might be due to the steroids use, but could also be in her gene (her father side has glaucoma history) and also her myopia (2.5 dioptres). She’s in the high risk group. In the later visits, he said it’s very rare that Steroids increases the eye pressure, and that in her case, the benefit of using of steroids would outweight the glaucoma risk. Also, he said at the reading of 20-22, regular checking is all that needs to do.
Despite of his advice, we stopped Steroids all together for 1 month (August) and her e got really really bad (luckily no infection, just very very dry and itchy skin, rashes spread out her whole body). At the end of that month, she was admitted to hospital for treatment and after that, we gave up and used Steroids again (Celestone- middle strength instead of Elocon prescribed in the first place). One more reason we started Steroids again because the specialist in the hospital urged us to use immunosuppressant for her (Imuran) which we didn’t want.

Sorry abt a long reply, just want to give you a full picture.
Some update abt her condition as at yesterday (she’s still sleeping at the moment):
- the itchiness in her palms/soles was a bit less (80%) but still there. Last night, the location of her itchiness was back to normal, I mean she’s itchy most in her scalp, face and trunk as before.
- Improved 30% - the red oozing spots nearly gone after 2 days of antibiotic
- The rashes increased a bit (redness and locations) compared to before the infection, her trunk is generally red now, esp in the evening.

My questions are:

- Should I re-introduce Carcinosin and at what dose?
- Can homeopathy treatment get rid of e once and for all?

Thank you
PS: BTW, just wonder if you live in Australia? (We’re in Aus)
CAKmum last decade
Bumping this for CAKmum. Can someone help her????

CAKmum, ZepOz is not a Homeopath, and from what I've read, does not support Homeopathy. I'm unsure what his reasoning is for questioning you as he did, but he can't answer your questions as to how to further your daughter's homeopathic treatment.

I can say positively that due to homeopathic treatment, my daughter no longer has eczema. I have no way to see into the future to know if it's gone for good, though. I have confidence, though, that if it returns, we can turn to Homeopathy again.
josiewales last decade
Hi Josie
Thanks for your info. I'm new to this community and don't know who is who.
Just checked with my homeopath and she said 'start the LM5 again'. I hope she's right, and that she's a good homeopath. I'll be waiting for some expert/s to confirm/respond to my post. Thanks again,
CAKmum last decade
Lms are the gentlest of remedies. The itchy feet could actually be precieved as a good indication. Lms are generally taken daily. Your explanation of the dosage is good, the prescriber is obviously being very careful, thats good. SOmetimes the dosage needs to be modified thats fine. Stay the course nothing wrong here that I see.

Best wishes
Sycotic last decade
Hi Sycotic

Thank you so much for your prompt response. I also thought the feet itchiness is a sign of her body eliminating all the toxins out (I heard abt it somewhere before),is this the case?

We re-started LM5 yesterday. Today, she's much better in terms of infection (all the oozing spots / cracks are gone) but eczemawise, she has more pink rashes in her legs which was 80% clear before the treatment. Her body is generally pink/red and still dry a bit but no lumpy rashes, just like before the treatment.

Should I expect a continuous improvement from now on or will there be a few more aggravations before she's completely healed?

Thank you.
CAKmum last decade
The key to these daily dosages is of course first finding a good remedy, and then finding a dose that is both stimulating yet mild, so the first phase of treatment is often about'tweaking' things as it were - using LMs. Clearly iI could not say it will be a smooth ride as I dont have the case, no one could. Homeopathic treatment has it s ups and downs. Although with patience i feel it the best way. We must think in a reletive manner. Disease that is on the outside must remain their until it is cured according to specific Laws within the homoeopathic philosophy. 'Within -out'

Hang in there.
Sycotic last decade
Hi Sycotic

Our homeopath said we're in the process to find her baseline just like what you're explaining. So can I interpret that once we've found her baseline, everytime we increase the dosage (stimulate her body a bit) there may be another aggravation? And so it will be quite some time before she's healed?

Sorry for nagging abt this but only if you know that she's been off school since August last year. Also, it puts my mind at peace if I know / understand more abt the process.

Thank you.
CAKmum last decade
Yes and no. The ideal is a gentle stimulation without aggravation. With skin comlaints this is hard though, because there is generally hyper-sensitivity. This is where endurance is needed, and a real look at health and long term goals.
Sycotic last decade
Thank you very much
CAKmum last decade
Sorry, one more question please.
I heard that eczema homeopathic treatment shouldn't be interfered by steroids. However,my homeopath said 'carry on everything as normal', and actually we are still using them to control the red rashes esp with the current aggravation(very little though). What do you think about this?
Thank you again,
CAKmum last decade
Well, how rude can you get!

'CAKmum, ZepOz is not a Homeopath, and from what I've read, does not support Homeopathy. I'm unsure what his reasoning is for questioning you as he did, but he can't answer your questions as to how to further your daughter's homeopathic treatment. '

So YOU have made up YOUR mind on what I do and don't support and have decided to rubbish me in front of everyone. And on that basis alone, you assume I am out to do harm to someone here! And yet you accuse me of being rude!!! What a joke...

I was asking questions for EVERYONE'S benefit so we had a clear understanding of what was happening in this case. But it seems you aren't interested in facts at all.

Well, good luck with your daughter, CAKmum. I'd like to offer advice, but no-one here wants you to hear it.
ZepOz last decade
This is the dilema faced. In some situations the homeopath has no right to suggest the removal of allopathic prescriptions. The removal can cause flare ups , parents become unhappy and abandon homeopathy, MDs get mad, the homeopath is then the bad guy/girl. Advice is for protection of patient and the overall advancement of homeopathy I suppose. The nice thing about your situation is that you are being given LMs so there is a daily stimulation and therefore a better chance for the remedy to continue positivley despite the alopathic interference.
Sycotic last decade
ZepOz, I've read on this forum that you do not support Homeopathy. Is that untrue? I'm sorry you took what I said as rude, it was not intended as such. I don't recall ever accusing you of being rude, though. Nor did I suggest or assume you were out to do harm. I only said that you couldn't suggest how to further homeopathic treatment. Is *that* untrue?

Frankly, ZepOz, and this is my opinion and I'd love someone else's opinion on this, the way you question people can lead one to believe that you are asking so that you *can* help further or begin homeopathic treatment, because that is what this board is for.

To be perfectly honest, ZepOz, based on your posts and based on your affilation with randi.org, I do assume that you are not here to help people with homeopathy. If I'm wrong, I apologize. But, if you're going to tell me I'm rude and wrong, then please indicate how you do feel about Homeopathy and tell me that you're asking questions of this mother so that she can get help with the homeopathic treatment of her daughter.

Otherwise, I'll stand by my original assumption.

Nonetheless, and regardless of your feelings about homeopathy, if they're as I 'assume,' (incidentally, one of my best friends subscribes to Skeptic magazine, I don't discount your opinions or judge you based on that) I didn't intend my post to be rude.
josiewales last decade
Hi Sycotic

Thank you so much for your post, it really puts my mind at peace.

Some update on my dd as at yesterday: infection's gone, neck's cracks are healed, itchiness in her palms and soles is nearly gone, more pink rashes on her legs and buttock - covered 30-40% area(steroids used), her trunk is dry, itchy and generally pink (calendular oinment used), arms are improved 50%, scalp and face stay the same - pink and itchy. Last night, she got itchy everywhere (like before) that woke her up half the time, she's still sleeping at the moment (10:45am).

Thanks again.
CAKmum last decade
Hi ZepOz & Josie

As you can see, with my daughter's current condition, I was desperate and came here to get help. As a newcomer, I welcome and appreciate all responses.

ZepOz, you gave me a chance to give everyone a full picture of my daughter's eczema and thank you for being the first responding to my post. I listen to all advice as I think I can judge them myself.

Josie, thank you for sharing experience abt your daughter's eczema homeopathic treatment, it certainly gives me peace of mind and inspiration. I really appreciate your understanding and concern for me as reflected in your post. I think only the ones who have been through the same experience can feel for the others. Thank you.

I think this forum is for everyone regardless of their purposes as long as they obey the rules. But I have to say that reading the posts abt fake IDs from this forum scares and confuses me so much considering I am a new member and don't have any homeopathy knowledge or experience.

CAKmum last decade
CAKmum, I'd like to apologize for the back and forth between ZepOz and I on this thread. It's totally inappropriate on a thread that is supposed to be for helping someone (particularly a child).

You're right, though, that if Zep's questioning allowed your daughter's case to be clarified, then it was a good thing. You have a great attitude.

Regarding the multiple ID's, if you click on someone's name who has multiple (or fake) ID's, there is a warning. Also, if you're concerned, seek out the moderator or just ask a general question. There are a few of us here who are not Homeopaths, but are regulars under treatment or, like myself, are just interested in trying to help others, even if it's just with support.

I'm glad my story gave you some inspiration. Sometimes I still am hesitant to believe it myself, that my daughter is eczema-free. I can link you to the original post, if you'd like. Or feel free to email me, my email is in my profile.
josiewales last decade
Hi Josie

Thank you for all the tips. I've looked through your old posts and if the 'John Stanton...' is the one you mentioned abt then I've found it.
At the moment, I want to find out what it's like - a homeopathic treatment process -through successful stories. Also, as my daughter is using Carcinosin, I'd like to learn more abt it too. I've read all the carcinosin related posts and feel a bit scared.

My daughter got a bit worse last night. Yesterday morning, I thought I saw some magic here. Her upper body's skin was smooth, soft, and much less red than before. In the late evening, after she had some take away roast chicken, she started to get itchy a bit, still her skin looked good. I put her to bed, after half an hour massaging, she went into sleep peacefully, how sweet!
1 hr later, she woke up itching and scratching. Since then, every 30' to 1hr, she woke up again with another intense itch attack. She scratched crazily all over her body. Her feet were itchy again. She got mad at me when my hands got in her way. Nothing I did could help. Today, her condition was back to square 1, the skin thickened, was red all over, itchy, and more rashes on the legs. Actually, it was worse than before. How disappointing!
I checked with my homeopath and was told to reduce the dosage to LM6 and if we need to, to LM10. Sometimes I don’t know what’s going on anymore. I just hope Carcinosin is the right remedy for her and it’s just that I’d kept my hope up too high. It’s better than if she’s allergic to the chicken or something else.

On reflection, I’ve noticed something new abt her eczema after she took the medicine:
- a kind of pattern: aggravation, 1-2 days of improvement, another aggravation... although the dosage was reduced. Is this normal? If the used dosages are still too strong for her, why some improvement then?
- the intense itchiness and her madness. She’s now worse than before the treatment, esp the strange itchiness. I think either the itch was too much for her to take, or the Carcinosin has psychologically affected her in some way. She’s now less tolerant, talks back to me and shows signs of irritation, although it is just in her itch madness.
- pompholyx in her palms/soles: first time in her whole eczema life.

They should be good indications for a correct remedy, shouldn’t they? Sorry for talking to myself here and for taking so long on this post, but I would like to hear your opinion or anyone else’s opinion. Thank you for listening.
CAKmum last decade
Hi Sycotic

Could you please help me with the following questions:

1/ What is the minimum dose of Carcinosin LM in eczema treatment, I mean the most diluted dose that actually works on the immune system and not as a placebo? (not sure if I put it in words correctly, just hope you understand what i mean)
2/ I learn that Carcinosin can treat many diseases. If my child takes it for eczema, does it also affect her in other aspects?
3/ My homeopath said that the improvement will show in a top to bottom direction. Is that correct?
4/ Are feeling cold and sweating good signs of skin being healing? My daugter with her dry skin used to feel hot and rarely sweated when she was in a flare up. Now, she feels cold (often asks for a blanket) and sweats a bit in bed.
5/ What is the difference between aggravation and side effect in homeopathic treatment?
3/ In a carcinosin related post, Loree said that 'Unless you are skilled with LM's and nosodes, you may want to avoid LM's as they are very strong and mechanical use of them can exteriorize or drive things deeper'. What does it mean please?

Thank you very much.
CAKmum last decade
Hi there
some of this stuff we have touched on .
1. I think you are getting caught up in the terminolgy a little. An homeopathic dose is a 'minimum dose' because it is prepared(dynamized) and prescribed based on homeopathic principles (hopefully). In other words any well chosen remedy can have an effect dispite the potency. Understand it is not the immunty we are trying to stimulate but rather the vital force, which governs the entire economy.
That said
2. The prescriber looks for improvement in physical ailments of course , but also for improvement in energy and for lack of a better term 'well being ' very cliche I know.
3 Yes this is refered to as the direction of cure. There are other aspects of this so called law . It is not always witnessed though, its one of the things the homeopath looks for in managing a case.
4. Remedies like Carcinosin are given often to clarify the picture as it were. So this could be a good sign that something good is happening.5
Aggravations are an exacerbation of present symptoms. Side effects is not a term we use, however proving symptoms are unwanted symptoms created by the remedy. I guess thats a side effect. It would indicate that the remedy is to strong or incorrect. 6. Carcinosin wont be the last remedy she will need. It shouldnt be used long term (many months). As i mentioned it is used to mix things up a bit -to clarify the picture so that an other remedy may be introduced. Many give give polycrests (non- nosodes) to start cases and reserve the nosodes when the case becomes
stalled, or more apparent of there need for use.

Ps your homeopath has instructed you to succuss the remedy prior to each dose- that is , pound ing the bottle down eight or ten times . Right?

Take care
Sycotic last decade
Hi Sycotic

I need to learn more before I can fully understand what you're explaining, esp the first and the last point. I thought if the remedy is incorrect, the body will not react at all.
My homeopath also said something like sulphur is usually prescribed for dry skin eczema but it is a professional call to prescribe Carcinosin in this case. She took the medical history very carefully (2:30hrs).

She didn’t ask us to succuss the remedy before use. According to her instructions leaflet, we are not up to that stage yet. I need to find that paper and let you know later, but surely at this stage, no succession yet.
Thank you for your time.
CAKmum last decade
CAKmum, yes, that is my original post. My daughter's case was treated through email, though. John Stanton took care of her.

My daughter, thankfully, never really suffered aggravation. There was only one time that I can recall that we (John Stanton and I) discussed aggravation but it was a walk in the park compared to the really bad times (when my daughter would cry and scratch herself to bleeding on a daily basis) that we didn't feel we needed to take action against the aggravation.

As Sycotic said, I'd be doubtful that Carsinosin would be your daughter's only remedy. I can't recall how many different remedies my daughter took, but it was a few, over the course of many months. And that was because there were a few tough spots (around and below her mouth, one thumb) that needed different remedies than her initial remedy (Sulphur, incidentally).

Just remember that Homeopathy works slowly. Very slowly sometimes. I can look back through my emails and give you a timeline, if you'd like. john34 whose son has been treated homeopathically for eczema will tell you the same thing.
josiewales last decade
Dear Josie
Yes, could you please give me the timeline of your daughter homeopathic treatment, it'd be helpful.
I think it would take longer for my daughter's case after many years of untreated or improperly treated eczema. We also don't know what she's allergic to yet. I've been thinking in the last few days abt the possibility that her e aggravations were due to something else rather than carcinosin reaction. I tried to put on hold the steroids, replacing with some naturopath cream, but i am nearly giving up. She's getting worse each day, although i have diluted to LM7. Her skin now is red and raw everywhere, oozing and swelling a bit in some places. There are also the early signs of Staph infection at some spots. I just want to cry.
We'll see the homeopath tomorrow, I hope she'd come up with something.
CAKmum last decade

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