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Nat Phos for weight reduction, Dr. Joe Livera please 1


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Weight Reduction with Nat Phos 6x. Latest News Page 2 of 5

This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
The cure is important, so by just giving nat phos for weight loss, when in fact the case could be a sulphur case what good are you doing? If taking nat phos and sulphur is the simillimum the patient gets no cure just frustration.
Also, there was no attack as you mentioned, it is just a question, that is how we learn, by questioning, you should know that.
saltOftheEarth last decade
My apologies for having confused you with some others who were hell bent to shoo me off the forum and I was very glad to have unexpected support from other members of this forum who rushed to my defence. I believe that I over-reacted when you used the word 'tout' which I presume you did not mean to use in the negative sense.

As you have stated it is the cure that is paramount in helping anyone with an ailment. The point to be remembered is that I have proved beyond any doubt that Nat Phos 6x helps over 90% of the cases I have treated for Obesity. If you read the first post on this thread you will realize the frustration that I have encountered in trying to promote this remedy for reducing weight which the media is not interested in as it was just a humble non qualified homeopath who first discovered its amazing quality.

You may be correct in your assumption that if Sulphur is the similimum, Nat Phos may perhaps not work as it should. However it is the process of deduction that leads to the similimum that I am not so sure of as even with Radar, I cannot identify Nat Phos 6x as a remedy for obesity. I am not very conversant with Radar which I have purchased a few months ago and still prefer to use my own intuition to identify a remedy for an ailment.

My approach to Homeopathy has often been criticized by many who are of the classical school but I believe that many of them do so as they have discovered that my "this for that" method is indeed very effective as commented on by those who have used it especially in cases like the nightly use of Arnica to promote that feeling of wellness and obesity for which Nat Phos 6x is the ultimate remedy.

I am always prepared to share my 'discoveries' with anyone as it is through this process of sharing that one is able to invite others to also derive the same benefit that I have got for the past 9 years from Arnica.
Joe De Livera last decade
Hi Joe

J Thank you for the compliment for my English. I’ve had some private teachers and I’ve learned English in school, too.

I do admire your discoveries and I think that your work in homeopathy is very important for people. I hope that in time more and more people will acknowledge that you’ve done a great service to homeopathy and to mankind.

I couldn’t find any 6x homeopathic product in Romania. I have to search the net for Boiron to see if they send products through mail and how much that would cost.

Thank you again for your help,
belciuge last decade
Hi Elena,

I have just replied your post on


where you indicated that you intended to use Arnica Q direct on your scalp without mixing it with oil and warning you not to do so. I hope you read it as one cannot play about with Mother Tinctures as they can only be used very carefully.

I note that you cannot get the Nat Phos 6x in Romania and I am sure that you can get it from Boiron or in England from Ainsworths or Helios. It is also available very cheaply in India where 250gm costs only $2.50 but I do not think that they will ship it to you in Romania.

Thank you for your compliments about my unusual attitude to the use of Homeopathy and I hope that my methods will also some day be accepted and recognized by others, especially those who bugged me in the reent past. I only prescribe any remedy if I am sure that it will help and shall continue to spread news of my 'discoveries' two of which I am convinced are valuable additions to the Materia Medicas especially Nat Phos 6x for weight reduction which is catching on throughout the world, and of course Arnica 6c for Hair Loss and also as a general tonic if used daily as I have done for the last 9 years with very positive results.
Joe De Livera last decade
Thank you Joe. Your are absolutely right. I have problem on my hands but I could not through it away.

She weighs 59kg (not sure will confirm)hight 60", takes Doxepin 25mg, Lorazepam 0.5kg and Perphenazine 2mg 1 tab of each daily.

She was an employee, Department of Health, worked long hours and looked after our children and house. During late 80s our only daughter, 6 years old at that time,got a gun shot at her upper leg received 2 wounds (in and out) No hospital or doctor for help. My wife used whatever she got at that time and treated the wounds. We have lost every thing including households. Decided to leave the city, she retired prematurely, settled in the capital city.

While we were in the capital city she made two attempts of suicide. When she was admitted in a hospital one employee of that hospital attempted to break her neck. Later X-ray revealed that two of her spinal disks 4 & 5 are too close to each other, pressing nerves leaving out through them. She has pain at her upper back and left hand. She uses her left hand for most of her activities and right hand for writting.She sweats right at that spot.

In early 90s, she started consultation with a psychiatric physician and on medication since then.

She suspects every thing, hatred, annoyed by works like "medicine" ( she close both her ears)never smile, satisfied (buy today and return tomorrow)refuses to accept. trouble with every one even with her own children, but helps her sisters, brothers and their families.

When I asked her 'what made you to depressed?, she mentioned to me two items. Her permature retirement and the place she lived was noisy and congested.

She was on Nat Mut for 3 days only. She made improvements, evidenced through her face, talk and other behaviours. She stopped because the raise of her BP. She started on August 8/05. Just before she took Nat Mur her BP was 135/86. On the day she stopped the BP was 168/100 that was August 11/05, Aug 12/05 - 152/95, Aug 13/05 - 148/96 and Aug 14/05 - 141/84.
I have a BP monotor home chosen on the recommendation of a Chief Pharmacist, early this month. I do not believe that Nat Mur was the cause for her BP raise, may be something else, am not sure.

However, I will try to convince my wife. I know it's not an easy task.

Again, thank for your time.

sthillaiyah last decade

The Nat. Phos. 6x from Boiron and from other sites costs 5.21$ for 7 g. or so plus the shipment. I can’t afford it. :(

Would it be too much boldness from my part if I ask you to send me from Sri Lanka the Nat. Phos. 6x? I could send you the money (2.5$ for the product + the money for the shipment) in an envelope. If the tube of Nat. Phos. 6x is not too big, it could be sent in a protected envelope (with air bubbles; I could send it with the money) with a simple postal stamp Sri Lanka – Romania. I once sent two dictionaries of 300-400g. each in two protected envelopes with simple postal stamps Romania – U.S.A. to a friend. It didn’t reach the destination as a letter in 2 weeks but in one month and a half but if didn’t cost me 7$ for the shipment but 2.5$ for the stamps :]

It’s o.k. if you can’t.
Thank you,
belciuge last decade
I shall see if I can send the Nat Phos to you. I am not promising but I shall check what the formalities are to send the tablets to you by post and what it will cost to send you some from my stock which I get from Mumbai which is in India. As you know I live in Sri Lanka which is another country which is south of India.
Joe De Livera last decade
Thank you a lot.

belciuge last decade
"belciuge" : Elena, I agree Joe responded like a pro, ALSO he hijacked the Arnica-Q + Oil posting from http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/12290/ ..... and then falsely called it his "my discovery" in http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/34236/ That's what is wrong and false. Did I say anything wrong about Joe's help or his concern or his work and abnegation or service to you or the world. I did not say anything.
*** I agree with you about my ignorance. I can't ignore falsification and lies since it is not in my blood or Indian culture. Since obviously you can - Go ahead - make your day - keep hallucinating.
*** Regarding your words "I rest my case", Since you are so vehemently & obviously supporting Joe with his false claims, I can understand your dilemma. Can't call a spade .. a spade ?. I did not come on this forum on your invitation, neither I require your advice to go away from this forum.
*** You are again right about resting your case. It does not take a iota of courage to falsify but to admit a falsification, it takes mountains of courage. Keep resting on your case. Pardon my ignorance ... but did Joe give you his case.

"saltOftheEarth" : Joe is infatuated with Arnica and obsessed with Nat.Phos-6X and since he is not a qualified homeopath professional, he would not understand the difference between bashing / critisim and your question. I too asked him a question & since he knows the answer prejudicingly, he conveniently chose not answer by feigning the words "I shall not respond ...." in http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/34577/

Lets all be re-assured, we all know the answer and even Joe knows the answer, whether he replies or not. No further questions addressed to him or answers expected from him, with my respects to his old age of 76 & BP of 120/80 Pulse 65.

In his "Thank you" politico toned sermons, he lovingly calls me "polluted, vulgar, insane jealousy, obsessed, deranged mind". That's obvious. 'cause he just can't seem to get over his monotony about praising himself endlessly. (http://www.abchomeopathy.com/forum2.php/34577/)

saltOftheEarth : Do you think THUJA is italically well indicated for such "FIXED IDEAS", since Thuja also covers "persistent insomnia" (sleeplessness). Here keyword read "PERSISTENT".

FIXED IDEAS as in Arnica for sleep
FIXED IDEAS as in Arnica for hair loss
FIXED IDEAS as in Nat.Phos-6X for obesity
FIXED IDEAS as in "THIS FOR THAT" (this medicine for that problem)

saltOftheEarth : It's okay, if you do not want to reply to above. I'm not looking for any Support.
Nisha-India last decade
Dear Joe,

We were able to convince my wife. She started with Nat mur last Sept. 16/05. She had proved it within a week. She is on it for 3rd week now, she is talking, laughting and dicussing day to day acivities, never seen for over 15 years. Thank you Joe.

I have a question. How long she should be on Nat mur? She is complaining of joints pain at knee, sole etc. Its look like she is suffering from Arthritis. The Forum's advice for Arthritis is Formica rufa 6c 2x daily for a week. Is it ok if she take Arnica 6c wet dose with
frmica? If she continue with Nat mur, can she take other meds, Formica and Arnica too? Please advise.

sthillaiyah last decade
Dear Sam,

I have been thinking of you and your wife's case recently and was delighted to have your report today of how your wife has responded to Nat Mur. Looking back on my posts I see that I had first suggested the 6x potency but when you reported that her BP had risen above her normal levels, I suggested the 30c potency. I would like to know which potency she is now using.

I do hope that her BP has stabilized and that the real reason for this increase has been identified. I have my grave doubts that it was caused by the Nat Mur as the concentration of the salt in both potencies cannot possibly cause her BP to rise.

The news that she is now behaving normally in any case justifies the use of Nat Phos and I hope that it will continue to help her in the future as well. If she is using the 30c potency and this helps her, you may continue to use it for a few months in the future as according to you she was in a bad way for 15 years when she was unable to get over her depression.

I would not like to suggest you use any remedy for her knees unless they are causing her real distress as I am concerned that the remedy that I use for Arthritis, which is Rhus Tox 30c in the wet dose can affect the positive effect of the Nat Mur. I would not recommend the Formica Rufa which you may like to know is potentized from crushed live ants ! This can be considered if the arthritis does not react to the Rhus Tox which she may use in about a month. She may however use the Arnica 30c in the wet dose at night as this will help her to sleep deeply which will also help her mental state.

Thank you for giving me the good news of your wife today. This is what makes the use of Homeopathy so very rewarding when a long standing problem is cured.
Joe De Livera last decade
Dear Joe,

Thank you for your concern and immediate reply for my questions.

My wife is taking Nat mur 6c which was recommended by you, 2x daily. It gave her relief of her depression up to 60%, I would say. Her HBP rise was not caused by Nat mur I believe, that may be due to other conditions like her Arthritis pain etc. Her BP is not that high as it was before, It is now around 135/85.

Her major complaint is pain on right side of her body from hip to sole. We checked with a Chiropractic doctor, he supplied with an Othotic sole specially designed for her leg pain after a computerized analysis. That even didn't help her much.

Today morning she was so upset worrying about her leg pain. She could not have a peacefull sleep last night. She is working in a hospital. Most of the times she stands on her feet that hurt her a lot. She need an immediate relief from her leg pain.

Her depression haven't gone completely, her suspecious mind, worries etc. still present. She suspects on every thing including on her med Nat mur. Now she has a little bit of patience to hear us. She changes her mind very often, but possible to convience.

Her improvements are convincing, she behaves almost normally, haven't seen for over 15 years. She told me Nat mur give her a peace of mind and joy. She will talk to her Dr at her next visit and try to get her med dose reduced.

My understanding is that you meant not 6c but 30c is the right potency that work well for my wife's conditions. Well, I can try that potency for another a couple of months if I can convince my wife successfully.

For Arthritis, your best choice is Rhus Tox 30c. I can try that too. I am not sure Rhus Tox will give a temporary relief or complete cure. According to this Forum Formica Rufa will cure Arthritis completely. Both may be right, but I do not know which will be the constitutional medicine for my wife. I will try both one by one and let you know the result.

Talking about myself, controlling my BP is seem to be hard. It came down to 115/76 at time I took Arnica 6c wet, Cal fluo 6x. I cut my allopathic med dose from 10mg to 5mg, then my BP went upto 140/90 and stays at that range. Over 2 months now, no change was seen. Am still on Arnica 6c wet and Cal fluo 6x.

When we talk about peaceful sleep at night, Arnica 30c split dose worked well for me. Of 6c my experience atleast one visit to bathroom. For 30c no visit at all. In term of effects on BP both are same. No difference I was able to observe. This is my own experience of taking these meds for over 2 months, hope would help others read this post.

Any openion, advice? will be appreciated.

Again, Thank you.

sthillaiyah last decade
Dear Sam,

I do wish that other patients whom I have tried to help also record their response in the same manner that you have done. It is only by this means that both the patient and the prescriber can fine tune the remedy to suit the ailment.

You will have to persuade your wife that Nat Mur is her salvation. If as you state she is now almost normal after 15 years we really have something to celebrate. You may use the 2 potencies 6c and 30c and observe which is most effective.

I note that you too are using Arnica but cannot remember for which ailment you are doing so. I checked the posts above on this thread but there is no reference. Please remind me of your problem.

You have mentioned that you have found Arnica 30 more effective in promoting undisturbed sleep and I would recommend that you use it.

You may like to know that I have used it for the last 10 years every night now but more often at the beginning when used it to relax my bladder prior to my surgery for my prostate in 2002.

I am convinced that the daily use of Arnica is the reason for my sense of wellnesss at age 76 with BP 120/80.

Joe De Livera last decade
Sorry Joe, I forget to mention my ailment for which am using Arnica 6c wet dose. It is my HBP. My post is in another page, you may remember we were exchanging views about BP monitor I was using.

Arnica gives me a restful sleep both 30c split and 6c wet. I am comfortable using wet dose for now.

There are several medications for HBP advised by various Homeopaths in this Forum. I decided to use one by one until I get a positive result. It is time consuming. I have to take one med at a time for atlest 2 week, judge result and then go on to the other if that was not the one good for me, until I get the right one. In the meantime, I will not give up taking Arnica 6c/30c. I think Arnica will not interfere with other medication.? Need advice on this please.

I am thinking of Ferrum Phosphoricum 30X for my next step instead of Cal. fluo. for my BP. Please advise. I mean Arnica and Ferrum. Ferrum will also help with Catarrh. I also have a little bit of sneezy and nasal block one side. Not that much. Please advise.

Thank you,
sthillaiyah last decade
I want to try Nat phos 6x for my weight reduction as nothing else works on me and I have a question for you.
If we should take two tablets just after lunch and dinner then people like me who take light breakfast as well should not I take two tablets after my breakfast as well?

and also please try to forgive the people who are trying hard to critize you as these poor people are homeopaths who could not treat a single person with this much confidence as you and worried about their shop to close down.
rg_us last decade
Dear Sam,

I now remember your problem and had often wondered in the recent past if your fluctuating BP was due to the batteries in your Digital gauge. I was only passing my own observations to you as I too had the same problem with mine which is an Omron and I now replace the AAA cells after about 50 readings as although the batteries show 1.5V they lose their amperage which is the reason for the false readings.

I am glad that you are able to experiment with the many remedies that you can use for Hypertension and if you have any Diabetes, Arnica is the remedy of choice. I discovered this aspect for my favourite remedy a few weeks ago and tests are now ongoing in 2 hospitals in India to verify my own findings which they confirm have been replicated. I have also advised them that 1/4 teaspoonful of Cinnamon powder also adds to the accentuate the sugar control as I have one patient who is now off Metformin which he has replaced with Arnica and Cinnamon.

I agree that you can experiment with Ferr phos but you are advised to use the lower potency as this may help better for BP. I hope that you are recording your readings daily as this is important from a statistical angle.

I look forward to your news.

Joe De Livera last decade
Glad to note that you too wish to use Nat Phos 6x for weight reduction. Please read all the information on this subject on this forum as the facts you will find therein can be useful in your quest.

Yes you may use 2 tablets after breakfast at the beginning of the therapy as this will accentuate the reduction of weight. Do not however increase the number of tablets above 2 per dose.

Please note that you must record your weight on the same scale weekly or more often if you like but a written record must be done.

Thank you for your concern about the many attacks that some persons carry out against me on this and on another forum the latest of which I would suggest you visit and if possible comment.


I am now quite used to these attacks some of which are prompted by the loss of revenue to those who find that my advice and treatment which I have always given free since I first started on being actively involved in Homeopathy, has adversely affected them. However it seems so ironic that when one tries to help someone in distress, one is treated like a criminal who has done something henious by helping someone.

I am convinced however that love will prevail against the hatred and jealousy that motivate these attacks.
Joe De Livera last decade
Thank you Joe.

The BP Monitor is no longer a problem. I replace cells very often. I record my BP readings 2x a day. Its always high in the mornings and lower in the evenings.

I do not have problem of Diabetes. My only problem is HBP other complains are not much bothersome. BP is very hard to control but possible. I will give it a try.

My wife, back on Nat mur. She agree with the benefits of Nat mur. Some times she get out of her mind.

I will use Ferrum phos lower potency, say 6c and see how it work. I will post results. I may start Ferrum by Oct.16, I give a little more time for Cal Fluo. until Oct 15.

sthillaiyah last decade

I have noticed wild fluctuations of my BP when taken in the morning before getting up from bed. I noticed that mine was an impossible 97/65 but in about an hour it rises to 120/80 with pulse 65.

I note that the reverse in your case with High BP in the morning and low. Suggest you verify this again as yours is unusual. I have checked the BP of my wife and a few others and they are similar to my observations.

It would be a relief if your wife will keep using Nat Mur but there are other remedies that are more powerful in their effects which can also be used for her case if she comes to a stage when the Nat M does not help.

I hope that you will take my advice and use a teaspoonful of Arnica 30 every night as I am convinced that it can help you with your various ailments.
Joe De Livera last decade
Dear Joe

Its true, my BP is high in the mornings. I take my BP before any med, even before my Allopathic. That could be the reason for high in the morning. It is same with my wife too.

Just now I return from my Homeo Store. I got Rhus ox 30C, Frrum Phos 30C & Formica rufa 30c. I do not have Arnica 30c drops. If I could have read your message half an before, I could have bought Arnica drops. I do have Arnica 30c pellets home.
I have to wait for over 3 days to get Arnica 30c drops. We have a holidy on Monday.

Can you advise on the next med for my wife in case the present Nat mur 6c is not answers well. I though of getting Nat mur 30 this evening. So far I have no reason to doubt.

If I start with Rhus Tox wet, how many drops I should add to the water? I believe the process is same for all wet doses. Until I get Arnica drops, Can I take both Rhus and Arnica 6c wet doses at the same time with a half an hour space between them?

Thank you Joe.
sthillaiyah last decade
I started taking Nat phos 6x, 9days before and I take 2 tablets after breakfast, lunch and dinner. In addition to it I have stopped eating rice, chapati and sugar completly and walking regularly but I am so sorry to say that there is no change in my weight and in addition to that I feel so full and heavy all the time while lunch and dinner is just soup and salad.
Am I doing something wrong. I take two tablets within 5 mins of my finshing food.
1. Should I take it before I start eating my food as I take time in finishing my meals?
2. How long should I try it before concluding that this remedy did not work for me?
3. I drink tea three times a day with artifical sweetner, can tea be the culprit?
4. Is there any thing else in homeopathy or biochemic I can try to reduce my weight?
5. Should I try another manufacturer of Natrum Phosphoricum 6x? right now I am using from BAKSON DRUGS(manufactured in India, Shillu Kala,Parwaoo)
I have full faith in you, I will follow whatever you advice.
karishma last decade
You have done almost everything correctly but you state that in 9 days you have not lost weight. I am not concerned that there is no loss in your weight but I am concerned that you feel heavy all the time. If you have had this sensation for some time in the past it is possible that you can be suffering from a worm infestation which you will have to clear with Cina 200 one dose repeated in a week. It is also possible that you can be suffering from Amoebiasis which is more difficult to eradicate. There is also the remote possibility that your Gall Bladder may be malfunctioning and this may have to be checked by a specialist in a hospital.

It is difficult for me to help you on this forum and I would suggest that you consult a Homeopath in your city.
Joe De Livera last decade
I never felt this full & heavy feeling before but one way it is good that it is keeping my craving to eat sugar away.
This is not the first time I have tried loosing weight and i was never succesful. One time in my yearly checkup my thyroid came low and in extensive tests it came normal. The only reason I could think is that I have low thyroid and that's why I dont loose weight while put on weight so easily. My energy level in general is very low and i get tired and irritated very soon, sometimes my hair start falling for months and skin color is little pale.
Can you suggest me something to improve my thyroid if there is no side effect of it. I have heard of kelp suppliment should I give it a try in addition to whatever I am trying?
Please help.
karishma last decade
Thank you for informing me about your thyroid problem. It is obvious that this is the real cause of your weight problem and I regret that I cannot help you with homeopathic treatment as I have no experience in this regard.

I hope that other more experienced Homeopaths can help you.

If you do not receive advice on this forum, you are advised to consult a Homeopath or an MD in your own city ASAP as your condition can only get worse without the necessary treatment.
Joe De Livera last decade
Hi Joe,

After reading your posts in this forum, I advised my daughter 40 years to take Nat Phos 6x for weight reduction. She inadvertently took Natrum Sulph 6x. In her own words, after half an hour of taking first dose of Natrum Sulph 6x I had a mild attack of Bronchial congestion and cough with burning sensation in the Bronchial tube. When I took second dose after dinner, half an hour thereafter, I again had the above symptoms with greater intensity and in addition some itching in the Bronchial tube, lungs and inside of the back. At this I realized that I was taking wrong medicine. By the next morning all these symptoms subsided. By the way I had these symptoms in my childhood.
I have seen for the first time that a first dose of homeopathic medicine brought out the old symptoms. Will you offer comments on this. Should she take Natrum Sulph 6x for clearing her old symptoms before starting Natrum Phos 6x for weight reduction. Thanks
libra last decade
To Libra

Thank you for having brought the reaction that your daughter had when she took Nat Sulph 6x instead of Nat Phos 6x. The reaction that she had was what is known as Proving the remedy. You may know that Homeopathy was born when Hahnemann discovered that if large doses of Quinine extract were used that symptoms similar to Malaria were noticed with rigors and high temperature.

Your daughter was proving the remedy which I prescribe in almost all cases of Asthma but for this ailment a higher potency of it Nat Sulph 6c is used which is far less a dose when compared with Nat Sulph 6x. The 6x potency is exactly 1/1Millionth of the salt Sodium Sulphate or Glauber's Salt which is a chemical commonly used in the formulation of medical drugs. Nat Sulph 6c is exactly 1 Million Millionth of this salt and it will be observed that it is 1 Million times the dose that your daughter used accidentally. However I am glad to note that no damage was done and I shall remember this news that you were kind enough to record on this forum.

I hope that other Homeopaths will note this phenomenon as this all contributes to the study of Homeopathy. Incidents such as this help us to remember more forcefully that what we have studied in out texts have been formulated by the classical authors after actual tests (provings) were made by them over the past 150 years.

I notice that you have used the first person 'I' to report this case of your daughter who according to you, took the Nat Sulph 6x instead of the Nat Phos 6x by mistake. Please clarify who used the Nat Sulph 6x. You or your daughter ?

There is no need for your daughter to take any medication except the Nat Phos 6x dose 2 tablets after both lunch and dinner, for weight reduction. Please tell her that the taboos of coffee and cold drinks must not be used during treatment as weight reduction does not occur if these taboos are used.

Thank you once again for having brought this accidental use of Nat Sulph 6x instead of Nat Phos 6x to my attention.

Please report your daughter's response to the Nat Phos 6x in a week when you can expect a drop in her weight of at least 1 pound.

Joe De Livera
Joe De Livera last decade

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