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How Dr.Luc made Joe's medicines rather harmless

Dear Joe has been asking me lot of questions about susceptibility, and to explain why I keep on saying that the method of water dose, taught to him by Dr.Luc, one of the best classical homeopaths in the world today, is keeping his patients away from likely harm.

It is ironic that Joe despises the methods of classical homeopaths, but, despite that,he was made to accept a method, that has been used by classical homeopaths, since Hahn.

I congratulate Dr.Luc for making this possible, as he has indirectly benefitted the patients, who follow Joe's prescriptions.The method ensures that the harm is minimal, even in cases, for whom no benefit is possible.

This is just an introduction. More to follow.

  gavinimurthy on 2006-11-22
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
When a virus is rampant in the atmosphere, did you ever wonder, why only a few are effected?

In the flu season, some people get flu, and some won't. Why?

The concept of susceptibility stems from these questions.

A person susceptible to the virus, gets the flu symptoms.Others won't.

The susceptibility of a person to a particular stimuli, keeps varying.

You may not be susceptible to flu virus this year. Next year, you may become susceptible, which means your health is degraded to that extant.

To be continued..

gavinimurthy last decade
Many factors contribute to a person's susceptibility. He might have inherited it from his parents, some strong disease might have changed his immunity levels, and made him susceptible to even less strong stimuli, or his mode of living might have changed it for the worse.

Sometimes, it so happens the a person becomes less susceptible to obnoxious influences, by simply changing his mode of living,habits.

However the person's susceptibility doesn't change overnight,and hence for the sake of discussion, let us assume he is at some particular level, and it is not going to change for some time to come.

gavinimurthy last decade
Once a person changes his level, at which he can be attacked, he will not be bothered by lesser evils.

A demented person is very unlikely to get flu,as his disease is at a much higher level,than the stage where flu can touch him.

So, not getting flu when your colleagues are suffering from it every year, need not mean you are more healthy. You can be worse too in terms of overall health.

So, not getting minor problems, doesn't make you automatically healthy.

Either you are really healthy, or your susceptibilty is at a level when these minor influences can't bother you.

gavinimurthy last decade
So, having some idea about suseptibility of a person, and having understood that it can change over the years, and having known that it changes from person to person, let us keep this aside and see what are homeopathic provings,how they are made, and how a materia medica is born.

We will connect these two things later.

gavinimurthy last decade
To understand what is curative in a medicine, it has to be tried first on healthy individuals.

The purpose is to see what new symptoms this medicine is capable of producing, which were not there earlier.

So,to start with a group of healthy volunteers are selected,their individual existing symptoms are recorded.

Now, a particular medicine, is given in 6c potency to some of them, and an unmedicated solution to some others.

The respective groups get the medicine/placebo repeatedly for considerable period of time, some times upto one month.

Some of them get new symptoms, and some won't get any new symptoms.

The new symptoms, which each individual gets are recorded, the symptoms from all those people who got new symptoms added together, compared with the new symptoms the placebo group got, these are eliminated, and the rest of them are taken, as authentic symptoms produced by this potency.

X may get two new symptoms, Y may get ten, and Z may get only one. A,B, may not get any symptoms at all.

Now, let us see why the medicine effected some people, and not the others?

gavinimurthy last decade
This is where the susceptibility comes into picture. A medicne in 6c potency is also an external stimuli, and all will not react to it in a similar way.

Some react violently, some mildly, and some not at all.

Though the provings are continued on those who reacted to 6c, with a 30c, for a lesser period, and then with a 200c, and a final materia medica is published by combining all the symptoms, produced by all the provers, in all potencies; for our discussion sake, let us assume that a materia medica is made with 6c alone.

So, now we have a materia medica of Arnica , with some thirty symptoms in it.

Remember that all 30 are not produced in the same person.Some produced 10, some 5, and some may be 1.

However, all of them are combined and given out as the materia medica of Arnica.

gavinimurthy last decade
Now let us see what is

'Similia similbus curantar'

It means a medicine capable of producing a disease is also capable of curing it.

So, let us say you have a group of symptoms, that match those given in the materia of medica of Arnica.

All those symptoms that are in you, might not have been produced by the same individual. But, it doesn't matter. The fact that Arnica is able to produce them is enough indication that you can be cured by Arnica.

The very fact that you have arnica symptoms means arnica can effect you now.You are susceptible to Arnica.And hence arnica will help you.

Now, what happens if you give arnica continuously to a person, who doesn't have arnica symptoms? Obviously Arnica can't cure his disease, because he doesn't have symptoms similar to Arnica.

However, if he has some slight susceptibility to Arnica,the repeated dosing may induce some other symptoms peculiar to Arnica in him, instead of reducing his existing symptoms. This is when we say, he is proving Arnica, without any benefit to him.

Now, take another case, where there is no similiarity to Arnica, and no susceptibility in the patient to Arnica.What is going to happen? He will be neither better, nor worse, except for the natural progression of disease.
It is as if taking plain sugar pills, or a drop of pure alcohol.

gavinimurthy last decade
Having understood this let us take Joe's nat.sulph example.

He suggests it to all the patients ,let us say, who want to treat their asthma.

All of us know, all asthma patients don't exhibit the same symptoms.

There are three possibilities.

Those that are susceptible to Nat.sulph, will get benefit.

Those that are slightly susceptible to Nat.sulph,but don't have the group of symptoms they have, in the Nat.sulph pathogenesis, will get the accessory symptoms peculiar to nat.sulph, on repeated dosage. Their existing symptoms for which they are taking nat.sulph will become continuously worse,due to natural progresion of disease.

The third group, whose symptoms don't have any similiarity to nat.sulph, and who are not susceptible to nat.sulph will neither get accessory symptoms, nor their disease will get cured.However, the natural progression of disease continues.

gavinimurthy last decade
Nice work Murthy. Let's hope prescribers here actually read this too, and not just those seeking help.
JCS2006 last decade
It is an accepted fact that continuous dosing of the same potency, is to be avoided, even for cases ,where it is indicated, as the second dose will interfer with the action of the first one, and hence doesn't help in faster cure.

However, if the next dose is increased slightly in potency,by making a water dose, and succuss it every time before taking it, it helps in a faster cure, for those who are susceptible to it.

Even, while taking water doses, it is to be ensured that the medicine is to be stopped ,once appreciable amel/aggravation is observed. If you continue beyond this point, you may spoil the case.

Now, with this background information on susceptibility, provings, the concept of similia similibus curanter, the impotance of minimum dose, and the advantage of water dose, over dry doses, let us see how Dr.Luc has helped Joe's patients though in an indirect way, by teaching hom the concept of water dose.

gavinimurthy last decade
So, Dr.Luc's concept of water dose, which Joe has adopted,has benefitted those patients with Asthma, who are susceptible it.

But, there are cases recorded which were better initially, but became worse later on.

Do you know why?

It is because, the medicine was not stopped at the right time. Had it been a dry dose, the situation would have been much worse, but with the water dose, the damage is minimal, and reversible,provided the medicine is stopped atleast after the aggravation becomes unbearable. Any way, the patient will stop it on his own, if the situation becomes unberable.

Now,for cases of the second type, the water dose doen't have enough 'punch' to create accessory symptoms.So, most of them are saved from getting these accessary symptoms because of the water dose.

Now, those of the third group, won't be effected by nat.sulph,in any way, even if a dry dose is repeated.So, if they take a water dose,it is just taking a spoonful of plain water.

gavinimurthy last decade
So, Joe's patients must thank Dr.Luc, as they have been saved from many complications, which would have befallen them.

Now,as a last word, let me say this.

If you are getting benefit from Joe's therapy, which may happen accidentally, please remember to stop taking the medicine the moment you get good amelioration/slight aggravation.

It is dangerous to continue beyond this point,even with a water dose.

This caution is more so for deep acting medicines, like Nat.sulph.

You may not have much problem with Arnica, as it is a very short acting medicine, and in all probability ,its effect will not last more than a day.

A daily dose of Arnica beyond and including 6c ptency, in water dose, may not hurt you.

You may get some benefit if you are susceptible to it.

The reason why Joe is benefitted by Arnica, is because he is susceptible to it, and the reason why he is not aggravated even with a daily dose, is because of it's short acting nature, and also probably due to its being antidoted, unknowingly.

The same thing applies to all those who claim to be benefitting from Arnica.

His another favourite pet remedy nat.phos is in between these two, as far as their deep acting nature is concerned.

That is why you hear lot of problems when Nat.phos 6x is repeated endlessly.The problems would have been less,had he suggested this too as a water dose.

Now, I conclude this.

All 'healthy' questions are welcome.

gavinimurthy last decade

Homeopathically Rules Explained : 'PLACIEBO method '

A medicine given JUST to SIMPLY MAKE-BELIEVE satisfy the patient that he is taking some medicine for his problems / diseases. Mostly, these medicines are do not have any physically curative effect. BUT to only INDUCE & satisfy the patient INTO BELIEVING psychologically that these medicines are working on him. The patient by psychological law of Expectation (anticipation) starts believing in the placebo medicine and experiences some psychological relief, BUT THE INTERNAL DEEP-SEATED CAUSATIVE DISEASE FACTOR REMAINS THE SAME and further dangerously cumulates into a powerful inter-woven complicated case disease.

CONSIDER this quote :
'It requires a very unusual mind to undertake the analysis of the obvious'.

Remain Healthy & Happy ....... Nesha-India
Skype i.d. : 'nisha-india'
Nesha-India last decade
Dear Murthy,
Thanks very much for your highly informative posts ! I have learnt a lot from your posts.

Several months back, when I first visited the ABC, I found Joe's Asthma prescription of Nat Sulph 6 all over the site and decided to give it a try for my chronic asthma. With great difficulty I procured the Nat Sulph 6 (shops out here commonly stock 6X and not 6C) and started off with the water dose with high hopes. I did not seem to get any relief from Nat Sulph even after taking it for 2 weeks - it was like sipping a teaspoon of water everyday. I also noticed that whenever I took Ars Alb 200 during emergencies, instead of the inhaler -(this is also part of Joe's treatment for Asthma) -my asthma would subside and I used to feel very good.

Reg: Nat Sulph, I even tried increasing the potency to 30c - even that did not have any response on my asthma. Perhaps I am not susceptible to Nat Sulph ??

Now, it turned out, after I met a classical homeopath, that Ars Alb happens to be my constitutional remedy !!!

(I may add that I do not intend to offend Joe in anyway - he has a heart full of love and compassion.)

keep shining the lamp of knowledge,
sriram last decade
Dear friends,

I think Mr. Murthy is through with what he wished to present so i thought i will share a few more things on the topic of susceptibility.

You know whenever a case of autism is brought before a homeopath, one of the things he asks is about the vaccines that the child received and any adverse reactions to any particular vaccine.Why is that?

Because it has been seen by a number of homeopaths that indiscriminate compulsory vaccination for all sorts of diseases is one of the prime causes of autism.When they remove the ill effects of the offending vaccines, the child starts to recover along with the help of constitutionall indicated remedies.

But then the question arises not all the children become autistic though all of them receive the same vaccines.Again the answer is the same viz. 'SUSCEPTIBILITY'.Not all the children are susceptible to the minute doses of the disease causing microorganisms that the vaccines essentially are.But a very small percentage of the unfortunate children are.Other children whose 'susceptibility' is less escape with less serious conditions than autism. Dr.James Compton Burnett coined a term called 'Vaccinosis' to describe the ill effects of vaccines.

It is this susceptibility factor which is different in different children allows the allopaths to escape with this criminal practice of compulsory vaccination.In India an average city child receives as many as 33 shots before the age of five!!This is such a high number that most children develop some or the other complication sooner or later in life.But a very small number develops full blown autism.

Thanks for reading this.

rajivprasad last decade
I agree to Rajiv's point and will like to addup that MMR vaccine is the major culprit for causing AUTISM.

Thimerosol and mercury and other protein contaminants in vaccine material sometimes start degenerative changes in children those are more susceptible to such external stimuli.
maheeru last decade
Dear Rajiv and Maheeru

vaccination and homeopathy is another very interesting subject, and one on which the general public,know very little.

i will discuss this subject too in a seperate thread shortly.

Thanks for your additional inputs on susceptability.

gavinimurthy last decade
Dear Mr. Murthy,

I wish to make this thread a major educative thread and hence the effort to drive home a few related points.

Carrying on from where i left.

Another phenomenon where different people having different 'susceptibilities' is very clear is in the case of allergies.What John may be allergic to has absoluely no impact upon Mohan and he wonders what the fuss is all about.

Due to this unique susceptibility of each individual, the homeopath tries to find that one homeopathic remedy which is most likely to remove that 'susceptibility'.That is why trying a number of remedies one after the other in the hope of finding the correct one is a wrong practice.Because out of a dozen remedies that you try, you may be susceptible to two or three incorrect ones, in which case they will graft their 'proving symptoms' on you and in the worst possible case may end up messing up your susceptibility factor making your disease more complex.

So, homeopathic remedies can cure and they can harm as well.THINK OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE WRITTEN ON THIS THREAD BEFORE STARTING TO TAKE ANY REMEDY OR REMEDIES FOR MONTHS TOGETHER.IT MAY RUIN YOUR HEALTH or it may not depending upon your 'susceptibility'.But then, why take a chance.Why not set up an appointment with a 'well trained' homeopath, give him a complete case and then listen to his advice.

I have more or less said the more important things that i wished to say.Though one could write a book on the finer points of this very very important topic in homeopathy.

Thanks for reading.

rajivprasad last decade
Hi Rajiv

All are welcome to add theit thoughts on susceptability.

It is also one of the lesser known and often misunderstood subjects in homeopathy.

gavinimurthy last decade
sent up.

gavinimurthy last decade
rajivprasad last decade
all are welcome to add to the concept of susceptability.

gavinimurthy last decade
sent up for the benefit of one and all.

gavinimurthy last decade
If Joe Pathy is harmless, it fails your theories of supression and other theories.

Then why is the CRY.
kuldeep last decade
keep sending it up.

gavinimurthy last decade

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