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Combination homeopathy vs. Classical homeopathy Page 4 of 4
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Dear All,
I am really amazed at the enthusiasm of the participants of this discussion.Each one of you have fantastically unique approach, to put forward your point of view.Each of you really love homeopathy & truely deserve compliments.
This discussion has gone circular now, & as you are all aware, that no final conclusions are possible, in circular discussions. however it must not deter us from further debates.
Further, I will like to put forward Hanemann's views on the nature of disease, through the papers of Peter Morrell.
ESSENCE OF DISEAES
When Hahnemann astutely argues, because 'by far the greatest number of diseases are of dynamic [spiritual] origin and dynamic [spiritual] in nature [therefore] their cause is not perceptible to the senses,' [Organon, 2] he means that sickness is always a dynamic [spiritual] derangement of the life-force. This is a central theme, which he emphasises by repeating endlessly throughout the Organon and several other essays. It therefore logically follows from this position that true cure could not be material or perceptible either, but must also be dynamic [spiritual] in nature; Hahnemann demands that the cure should correspond to the cause. Yet, when Hahnemann then examines allopathy, he finds no confirmation of this view.
Allopathy has always maintained that it can 'draw conclusions relative to the invisible process whereby the changes which take place in the inward being of man in diseases,' [Organon, 2] can be perceived and utilised in therapy. Furthermore, they have never deviated from the employment of material drugs to address dynamic diseasesa mismatch Hahnemann is eager to pounce on. They therefore proposed that 'the internal essence of the disease, the disease itself,' [Organon, 2] could be understood and defined. However, in Hahnemanns view such a contention regarding 'this imperceptible internal essence,' [Organon, 2] was a delusion, a fabrication springing from a fevered imagination on the part of allopathic physicians: 'a bogus prospectus, the child of an overactive imagination, like designs for a perpetual motion machine.' [Berlin, 1979, 110] Hahnemann makes it very clear that he regards any alleged internal essence of disease to be a fiction, a fantasy.
Nevertheless, as Hahnemann points out, enormous effort has been invested by old school physicians concerning 'an internal invisible cause of disease conjectures that have been dignified by the followers of the old school with the title of causal indication, and considered to be the only possible rationality in medicine.' [Organon, 3] Hahnemann impatiently dismisses such ideas as preposterous 'assumptions, too fallacious and hypothetical to prove of any practical utility flattering to the vanity of the learned theorist, but usually leading astray when used as guides to practice.' [Organon, 3] It would be difficult to imagine a more robust dismissal of the very idea.
Hahnemann proposes that old school physicians had indeed based their whole system upon the removal of these imagined causes of sickness, and this is why he even considers this matter worthy of comment. He states that 'the old school of medicine believe it might cure diseases in a direct manner by the removal of the [imaginary] material cause of disease,' [Organon, 4] and as he further states, they found it 'next to impossible to divest themselves of these materialistic ideas.' [Organon, 4] One reason Hahnemann focuses on this topic is that he trained in the old school methods himself and has studied it in depth. He feels this makes him qualified to criticise it. Having failed to produce cures using those methods, he advises against them. He therefore concludes that those 'functional vital changes, which are called diseases, must be produced and effected chiefly, if not solely, by dynamic [spiritual] influences and could not be effected in any other way.' [Organon, 4] This is a pretty clear and unambiguous statement of Hahnemann defending homeopathy against any materialistic conception of disease cause and cure. He identifies very clearly his own view of the nature of homeopathy and of diseaseboth being dynamic in character, rather than chemical, bacterial, molecular or genetic.
When Hahnemann uses the words direct manner he amplifies the meaning of this phrase in a footnote to the main text by saying the use of 'violent, always hurtful evacuant drugs.' [Organon, 4] He clearly wishes to sharply contrast such brutal and uncurative measures against the simple, harmless and curative measures employed in homeopathy. So as to clarify and extend his meaning, he also adds that in some cases a 'dynamic origin' of a disease can mean 'caused by mental disturbance [grief, fright, and vexation], a chill, and over-exertion of the mind or body.' [Organon, 4]
Dr S bahl
I am really amazed at the enthusiasm of the participants of this discussion.Each one of you have fantastically unique approach, to put forward your point of view.Each of you really love homeopathy & truely deserve compliments.
This discussion has gone circular now, & as you are all aware, that no final conclusions are possible, in circular discussions. however it must not deter us from further debates.
Further, I will like to put forward Hanemann's views on the nature of disease, through the papers of Peter Morrell.
ESSENCE OF DISEAES
When Hahnemann astutely argues, because 'by far the greatest number of diseases are of dynamic [spiritual] origin and dynamic [spiritual] in nature [therefore] their cause is not perceptible to the senses,' [Organon, 2] he means that sickness is always a dynamic [spiritual] derangement of the life-force. This is a central theme, which he emphasises by repeating endlessly throughout the Organon and several other essays. It therefore logically follows from this position that true cure could not be material or perceptible either, but must also be dynamic [spiritual] in nature; Hahnemann demands that the cure should correspond to the cause. Yet, when Hahnemann then examines allopathy, he finds no confirmation of this view.
Allopathy has always maintained that it can 'draw conclusions relative to the invisible process whereby the changes which take place in the inward being of man in diseases,' [Organon, 2] can be perceived and utilised in therapy. Furthermore, they have never deviated from the employment of material drugs to address dynamic diseasesa mismatch Hahnemann is eager to pounce on. They therefore proposed that 'the internal essence of the disease, the disease itself,' [Organon, 2] could be understood and defined. However, in Hahnemanns view such a contention regarding 'this imperceptible internal essence,' [Organon, 2] was a delusion, a fabrication springing from a fevered imagination on the part of allopathic physicians: 'a bogus prospectus, the child of an overactive imagination, like designs for a perpetual motion machine.' [Berlin, 1979, 110] Hahnemann makes it very clear that he regards any alleged internal essence of disease to be a fiction, a fantasy.
Nevertheless, as Hahnemann points out, enormous effort has been invested by old school physicians concerning 'an internal invisible cause of disease conjectures that have been dignified by the followers of the old school with the title of causal indication, and considered to be the only possible rationality in medicine.' [Organon, 3] Hahnemann impatiently dismisses such ideas as preposterous 'assumptions, too fallacious and hypothetical to prove of any practical utility flattering to the vanity of the learned theorist, but usually leading astray when used as guides to practice.' [Organon, 3] It would be difficult to imagine a more robust dismissal of the very idea.
Hahnemann proposes that old school physicians had indeed based their whole system upon the removal of these imagined causes of sickness, and this is why he even considers this matter worthy of comment. He states that 'the old school of medicine believe it might cure diseases in a direct manner by the removal of the [imaginary] material cause of disease,' [Organon, 4] and as he further states, they found it 'next to impossible to divest themselves of these materialistic ideas.' [Organon, 4] One reason Hahnemann focuses on this topic is that he trained in the old school methods himself and has studied it in depth. He feels this makes him qualified to criticise it. Having failed to produce cures using those methods, he advises against them. He therefore concludes that those 'functional vital changes, which are called diseases, must be produced and effected chiefly, if not solely, by dynamic [spiritual] influences and could not be effected in any other way.' [Organon, 4] This is a pretty clear and unambiguous statement of Hahnemann defending homeopathy against any materialistic conception of disease cause and cure. He identifies very clearly his own view of the nature of homeopathy and of diseaseboth being dynamic in character, rather than chemical, bacterial, molecular or genetic.
When Hahnemann uses the words direct manner he amplifies the meaning of this phrase in a footnote to the main text by saying the use of 'violent, always hurtful evacuant drugs.' [Organon, 4] He clearly wishes to sharply contrast such brutal and uncurative measures against the simple, harmless and curative measures employed in homeopathy. So as to clarify and extend his meaning, he also adds that in some cases a 'dynamic origin' of a disease can mean 'caused by mental disturbance [grief, fright, and vexation], a chill, and over-exertion of the mind or body.' [Organon, 4]
Dr S bahl
sbahl last decade
I happened to see this post, and if I may say this:
while I agree that it is not right to talk disparagingly of anyone's beliefs, I will also say that it is inappropriate to bring in Sai Baba or any gurubabas into such fora. If I believe that there is one god and there are no human manifestations of the Almighty, it might irritate or annoy me. Please keep your personal beliefs to yourself.
while I agree that it is not right to talk disparagingly of anyone's beliefs, I will also say that it is inappropriate to bring in Sai Baba or any gurubabas into such fora. If I believe that there is one god and there are no human manifestations of the Almighty, it might irritate or annoy me. Please keep your personal beliefs to yourself.
ripas last decade
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
I am glad that this thread is being brought up again and again.
Good effort by all concerned.
Murthy
Good effort by all concerned.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Here is a post made by Mohan ...on the ' Arnica for Anything and Everything ' thread.
A wonderful post on need for Research and Innovation:
Quote
Dear Joe,
If all scientistis stuck to what their predecessors scribed, there would be no new thoughts, priciples, researches and inventions ..........the result --> stagnation of skill, knowledge and experiences.
I am not an academician but a research scientist. Keep trying new ways and modifications of existing principles and methods.
I strongly believe in your approach and methodology. AFTER ALL THE RESULTS THAT MATTER.
Libraries are full of books new and old. Let book worm dabble there. You go on helping people achieve results from their ailments.
Every day a crow comes and sits of the frame of my balcony window and keeps on making noise till I kick him away. This is the crux of the story.....
Unquote
Pankaj Varma
A wonderful post on need for Research and Innovation:
Quote
Dear Joe,
If all scientistis stuck to what their predecessors scribed, there would be no new thoughts, priciples, researches and inventions ..........the result --> stagnation of skill, knowledge and experiences.
I am not an academician but a research scientist. Keep trying new ways and modifications of existing principles and methods.
I strongly believe in your approach and methodology. AFTER ALL THE RESULTS THAT MATTER.
Libraries are full of books new and old. Let book worm dabble there. You go on helping people achieve results from their ailments.
Every day a crow comes and sits of the frame of my balcony window and keeps on making noise till I kick him away. This is the crux of the story.....
Unquote
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
and this is the post made by Ripas
Re: Combination homeopathy vs. Classical homeopathy From ripas on 2006-11-01
Another point. What is 'evolved' about mixing homeopathic remedies or prescribing them as you please? If it is homeopathy you are practicing, then you have to go by principles of homeopathy - and I don't have to tell you what they are. To use homeopathic remedies any which way you please and then call it homeopathy is not truthful.
Murthy
Re: Combination homeopathy vs. Classical homeopathy From ripas on 2006-11-01
Another point. What is 'evolved' about mixing homeopathic remedies or prescribing them as you please? If it is homeopathy you are practicing, then you have to go by principles of homeopathy - and I don't have to tell you what they are. To use homeopathic remedies any which way you please and then call it homeopathy is not truthful.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
This is what Dr.Luc says
At this point the greatest threat to homeopathy comes not from allopathic practitioners or pharmaceutical companies but from self-professed homeopaths who do not follow the immortal laws and principles laid down by Hahnemann. Whether out of ignorance or laziness, or the desire to impress their patients with their gimmicks so that they can charge more money, these pseudo-homeopaths violate the most basic principle of homeopathy: to give a single remedy which covers the totality of the symptom picture. Some give three or four remedies within a single week; others give mixtures of several or even a dozen remedies at once. In so doing they harm the patient, which is bad enough, but worse still, they harm the profession and the reputation of homeopathy.
Murthy
At this point the greatest threat to homeopathy comes not from allopathic practitioners or pharmaceutical companies but from self-professed homeopaths who do not follow the immortal laws and principles laid down by Hahnemann. Whether out of ignorance or laziness, or the desire to impress their patients with their gimmicks so that they can charge more money, these pseudo-homeopaths violate the most basic principle of homeopathy: to give a single remedy which covers the totality of the symptom picture. Some give three or four remedies within a single week; others give mixtures of several or even a dozen remedies at once. In so doing they harm the patient, which is bad enough, but worse still, they harm the profession and the reputation of homeopathy.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
and these are the results of Joe's therapy over an year.
Statistics.!!
re: anal fistula- fissure From gavinimurthy on 2006-11-03
Izzac was the first patient on this thread..He just got palliated..still has the problem.
Chipper started the therapy and abandoned it with in a month,as his pulse went down to 49 after starting arnica..he is not tobe seen around..
and this is what Izzac said on 19/01/06
'I realised something. Whenever I thought I was ok, I stopped using Savlon cream, then it started draining again. Happened just yesterday. It could be the Savlon that is quite good in killing the ever-productive germs. Healing speeds up when there are not that many germs u see.'
Bethw has moved over to Fibrin Glue Therapy within 6 months..
Noproblemo found no relief and went for surgery...
Colocub opted for surgery after trying out this protocol..
Jonboy got fedup and said it makes no difference...
Fistula is taking only Arnica and stopped other medications...
martinp didn't get much relief and stopped posting...
buck99se recommends surgery..
summary wants to know when he will get cured...
Julianna is into it only for two months...
Vancouverguy switched over to nitric acid...
trishs fistula is surfacing again...
tumzin reports it is taking a long time to heal...
megastar is keeping his fingers crossed...
overanxious is going to see a classical homeopath...
Other posts are from those who just peep in and move on..
*********
I read all the 25 pages patiently.
The above are the hard facts staring at you.
The data is from over an year.It is all there before your own eyes.
Decide yourself whether you want doubtful palliation or cure.
Choice is yours.
*********
Murthy
Statistics.!!
re: anal fistula- fissure From gavinimurthy on 2006-11-03
Izzac was the first patient on this thread..He just got palliated..still has the problem.
Chipper started the therapy and abandoned it with in a month,as his pulse went down to 49 after starting arnica..he is not tobe seen around..
and this is what Izzac said on 19/01/06
'I realised something. Whenever I thought I was ok, I stopped using Savlon cream, then it started draining again. Happened just yesterday. It could be the Savlon that is quite good in killing the ever-productive germs. Healing speeds up when there are not that many germs u see.'
Bethw has moved over to Fibrin Glue Therapy within 6 months..
Noproblemo found no relief and went for surgery...
Colocub opted for surgery after trying out this protocol..
Jonboy got fedup and said it makes no difference...
Fistula is taking only Arnica and stopped other medications...
martinp didn't get much relief and stopped posting...
buck99se recommends surgery..
summary wants to know when he will get cured...
Julianna is into it only for two months...
Vancouverguy switched over to nitric acid...
trishs fistula is surfacing again...
tumzin reports it is taking a long time to heal...
megastar is keeping his fingers crossed...
overanxious is going to see a classical homeopath...
Other posts are from those who just peep in and move on..
*********
I read all the 25 pages patiently.
The above are the hard facts staring at you.
The data is from over an year.It is all there before your own eyes.
Decide yourself whether you want doubtful palliation or cure.
Choice is yours.
*********
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
I forgot to highlight the RESULTS word. The above are the results MOHAN was talking about.
'AFTERALL RESULTS MATTER.'
How true.!!
Murthy
'AFTERALL RESULTS MATTER.'
How true.!!
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
Murthy,
While on these threads you make huge lectures....when you actually get down to case taking and prescribing...how come you forget all these guidelines.
(Cold ...case for example).
Pankaj Varma
While on these threads you make huge lectures....when you actually get down to case taking and prescribing...how come you forget all these guidelines.
(Cold ...case for example).
Pankaj Varma
♡ PANKAJ VARMA last decade
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
Research and innovation are always welcome in any field.
You prove more medicines and bring out new materia medica.
You try to add remedies to the already existing 'groups' based on latest clinical findings.
You try to innovate in methods of administration.
But,to practice in a way, that has been explicitly prohibited by Hahn..and calling it reaserch and innovation is deciet of the highest sort.
Murthy
You prove more medicines and bring out new materia medica.
You try to add remedies to the already existing 'groups' based on latest clinical findings.
You try to innovate in methods of administration.
But,to practice in a way, that has been explicitly prohibited by Hahn..and calling it reaserch and innovation is deciet of the highest sort.
Murthy
♡ gavinimurthy last decade
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