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hoeopathy is hit and trial with mostly misses Page 4 of 4
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just to note homeopathy is not a growing trend it has been a round for over 200 years
and im not suprised that drs have insurance 700 thousand die from medical malpractice a year and the drs that care about their patients will have qualiforcations, and in new zealand you cant practice with out one, but most drs are not homepaths
and im not suprised that drs have insurance 700 thousand die from medical malpractice a year and the drs that care about their patients will have qualiforcations, and in new zealand you cant practice with out one, but most drs are not homepaths
alangail1 last decade
Zep-
money? please, I expected something better than that, its obviously a mistake to suggest money as the motive.
My doc probably loses money my friend. More likely he does it because it works... so he does it out of concern for his patients. doctors in the U.S. bill by visit, more visits in a day means more money. you are honely lucky to get 10 minutes. His homeopathic visits take a long time (less visits per day). its simple math. less visits, less money.
His office is small, simple, not in the least flashy. As a practicing MD, he carries the same insurance all md's are required to in my state.. ie, same overhead. practicing homeopathy costs him money, but he does it anyway because its better for his patients, and it works. probably much more fulfilling than prescribing drugs too.
by the way, drugs are dangerous when prescribed, no need to 'misuse them'. look at the statistics, its no secret. drugs kill randomly, and it is expected. add in misuse, and I think you have one of the largest causes of death in the U.S. when is the last time you heard of someone dying from a dose of a homeopathic remedy? Never heard of such a thing.
your point about a lot of money in homeopathic remedies? you must be joking, right? first,show me where I said homeopathy is free. I did not. But clearly, for me, it has been a huge cost savings over drugs and regular doctor visits. Homeopathy wins on long term cost, no contest.
also, the phara industry measures its profits in the tens to hundreds of billions of dollars. makes homeopathy look like a dimestore operation. but, I'm happy to hear that boiron is doing so well, gives me some hope afterall. Besides, what do you care what people spend their money on? cigarettes kill, but they are still sold. If people like me like to amuse ourselves by curing ourselves of chronic disease through homeopathy, what does it matter to you?
People love my doc because he cures them of serious issues that other doctors bury in anti-biotics and other gimmick drugs (which as the other poster so aptly noted, make the problem worse or do nothing at all).
i would say my doc makes his life more complicated by practicing homeopathy, not less, as he has to deal with great prejudice from people such as yourself and the medical establishment.
I think you do need to spell it out, because, as set out above, you explanation misses the mark completely. He is more educated than you, is a licensed MD, but practices homeopathy mainly. he is not alone. you have no real explanation for this. so yes, please, hopefully you can spell it more properly on your next attempt.
use some commone sense zep, homeopathy works, at least for some people, so, why does it bother you so?
John
money? please, I expected something better than that, its obviously a mistake to suggest money as the motive.
My doc probably loses money my friend. More likely he does it because it works... so he does it out of concern for his patients. doctors in the U.S. bill by visit, more visits in a day means more money. you are honely lucky to get 10 minutes. His homeopathic visits take a long time (less visits per day). its simple math. less visits, less money.
His office is small, simple, not in the least flashy. As a practicing MD, he carries the same insurance all md's are required to in my state.. ie, same overhead. practicing homeopathy costs him money, but he does it anyway because its better for his patients, and it works. probably much more fulfilling than prescribing drugs too.
by the way, drugs are dangerous when prescribed, no need to 'misuse them'. look at the statistics, its no secret. drugs kill randomly, and it is expected. add in misuse, and I think you have one of the largest causes of death in the U.S. when is the last time you heard of someone dying from a dose of a homeopathic remedy? Never heard of such a thing.
your point about a lot of money in homeopathic remedies? you must be joking, right? first,show me where I said homeopathy is free. I did not. But clearly, for me, it has been a huge cost savings over drugs and regular doctor visits. Homeopathy wins on long term cost, no contest.
also, the phara industry measures its profits in the tens to hundreds of billions of dollars. makes homeopathy look like a dimestore operation. but, I'm happy to hear that boiron is doing so well, gives me some hope afterall. Besides, what do you care what people spend their money on? cigarettes kill, but they are still sold. If people like me like to amuse ourselves by curing ourselves of chronic disease through homeopathy, what does it matter to you?
People love my doc because he cures them of serious issues that other doctors bury in anti-biotics and other gimmick drugs (which as the other poster so aptly noted, make the problem worse or do nothing at all).
i would say my doc makes his life more complicated by practicing homeopathy, not less, as he has to deal with great prejudice from people such as yourself and the medical establishment.
I think you do need to spell it out, because, as set out above, you explanation misses the mark completely. He is more educated than you, is a licensed MD, but practices homeopathy mainly. he is not alone. you have no real explanation for this. so yes, please, hopefully you can spell it more properly on your next attempt.
use some commone sense zep, homeopathy works, at least for some people, so, why does it bother you so?
John
john34 last decade
John,
John,
Again with the strawman arguments! Have you no substance you can offer? Where did I say homeopathy 'offends' or 'bothers' me? Have you not learned anything about skeptics yet? If you had, you would know that is both a fallacious and erroneous position. Again, why don't you respond to what I wrote, not what you think I believe?
Here: Why don't you take the part of the skeptic, and YOU tell US what WE are looking for from homeopaths and homeopathy. Maybe that is easier for you. The floor is yours. See how close you can get to the truth...
As for your statistics on medical deaths 'due to modern medicine', I'm unimpressed. I've seen these misrepresentations handsomely debunked as unfactual far too many times. Hint: Just because a person dies in a hospital does NOT mean medical malpractice was responsible. I think you can deduce the logical conclusion that follows.
And now you tell me your doctor loses money because he loves his patients so much that he will sacrifice a profitable medical practice out of the goodness of his heart just to give them homeopathy. So when will he become so unprofitable that he will go out of business, do you think?
And homeopathy cures illnesses no modern medicines or procedures can touch, does it? At last, the very point I have been trying to get to! Would you please provide some substantiated, journalled, and peer-reviewed evidence to back that claim up. Anything beyond second- and third-hand anecdotal evidence, that is. I take it you are VERY well acquainted with the legal view of such evidence - science is not a lot different in that regard. I'm more than happy to change my mind if you have any references that meets this basic criteria.
I await your response on this eagerly, because, so far, all I have received from others is blank looks, cold shoulders, or naked vitriol. It was like I was asking to kidnap their first-born child or something! Maybe I will get lucky this time...
John,
Again with the strawman arguments! Have you no substance you can offer? Where did I say homeopathy 'offends' or 'bothers' me? Have you not learned anything about skeptics yet? If you had, you would know that is both a fallacious and erroneous position. Again, why don't you respond to what I wrote, not what you think I believe?
Here: Why don't you take the part of the skeptic, and YOU tell US what WE are looking for from homeopaths and homeopathy. Maybe that is easier for you. The floor is yours. See how close you can get to the truth...
As for your statistics on medical deaths 'due to modern medicine', I'm unimpressed. I've seen these misrepresentations handsomely debunked as unfactual far too many times. Hint: Just because a person dies in a hospital does NOT mean medical malpractice was responsible. I think you can deduce the logical conclusion that follows.
And now you tell me your doctor loses money because he loves his patients so much that he will sacrifice a profitable medical practice out of the goodness of his heart just to give them homeopathy. So when will he become so unprofitable that he will go out of business, do you think?
And homeopathy cures illnesses no modern medicines or procedures can touch, does it? At last, the very point I have been trying to get to! Would you please provide some substantiated, journalled, and peer-reviewed evidence to back that claim up. Anything beyond second- and third-hand anecdotal evidence, that is. I take it you are VERY well acquainted with the legal view of such evidence - science is not a lot different in that regard. I'm more than happy to change my mind if you have any references that meets this basic criteria.
I await your response on this eagerly, because, so far, all I have received from others is blank looks, cold shoulders, or naked vitriol. It was like I was asking to kidnap their first-born child or something! Maybe I will get lucky this time...
ZepOz last decade
Zep-
that homeopathy challenges you, offends you ect, is self evident... why else would you spend months on a forum devoted to homeopathy, giving out allopathic advice (which frankly doesn't seem to draw much interest from anyone).
re money, again your logic is weak. Less money does not necessarily mean broke, it means less money, nothing more.
and give a rest to your bit about the peer-reviewed blah blah blah. I'm a lawyer, not a medical researcher. if you want the research, then go do it, quit complaining and waiting for someone to serve it up to you. For most people, experience is enough. not good enough for you, ok then, don't try homeopathy. its your loss.
perhaps your feelings of a negative reception here is that you are not contribiting to the subject of the forum, homeopathy. perhaps your time would be better spent (and actually better received) on an allopathy forum.
cheers.
John
that homeopathy challenges you, offends you ect, is self evident... why else would you spend months on a forum devoted to homeopathy, giving out allopathic advice (which frankly doesn't seem to draw much interest from anyone).
re money, again your logic is weak. Less money does not necessarily mean broke, it means less money, nothing more.
and give a rest to your bit about the peer-reviewed blah blah blah. I'm a lawyer, not a medical researcher. if you want the research, then go do it, quit complaining and waiting for someone to serve it up to you. For most people, experience is enough. not good enough for you, ok then, don't try homeopathy. its your loss.
perhaps your feelings of a negative reception here is that you are not contribiting to the subject of the forum, homeopathy. perhaps your time would be better spent (and actually better received) on an allopathy forum.
cheers.
John
john34 last decade
John,
I see. It seems clear now you have chosen to reject the requirement for any peer-reviewed evidence to support any claims of efficacy. Instead, you are basing your opinions abd beliefs on second- and third-hand anecdotes, and that painfully obvious self-delusion of confirmation-bias. And this from a trial lawyer! I have no further comment on that, apart from the old maxim: There's none so blind as those who will not see.
So your doctor is making less money for his altruism. How much less? New top-end Lexus every two years instead of one? Or is it, perhaps, that he finds there are far fewer legal restrictions and overheads in selling his patients homeopathic remedies, while still getting the same income. That is, it's easier and faster to make his desired profits... Of course, he can't tell his patients that! They would think he was a mercenary predator! :)
Lastly, perhaps you can clarify something for me. Does 'contributing to this forum' mean trying to solve every problem posted using only a homeopathic remedy? Or does it mean the professionals here actually trying to solve the patients' problems and help them in any way they can. I'd appreciate your input on that question - it's had me puzzled for a while now.
regards
I see. It seems clear now you have chosen to reject the requirement for any peer-reviewed evidence to support any claims of efficacy. Instead, you are basing your opinions abd beliefs on second- and third-hand anecdotes, and that painfully obvious self-delusion of confirmation-bias. And this from a trial lawyer! I have no further comment on that, apart from the old maxim: There's none so blind as those who will not see.
So your doctor is making less money for his altruism. How much less? New top-end Lexus every two years instead of one? Or is it, perhaps, that he finds there are far fewer legal restrictions and overheads in selling his patients homeopathic remedies, while still getting the same income. That is, it's easier and faster to make his desired profits... Of course, he can't tell his patients that! They would think he was a mercenary predator! :)
Lastly, perhaps you can clarify something for me. Does 'contributing to this forum' mean trying to solve every problem posted using only a homeopathic remedy? Or does it mean the professionals here actually trying to solve the patients' problems and help them in any way they can. I'd appreciate your input on that question - it's had me puzzled for a while now.
regards
ZepOz last decade
Oh, one last thing, John.
You need to review your research. 'Allopathy' was a term Hahnemann invented to describe stuff that he considered not homeopathy (i.e. everything he didn't agree with). There has actually never been such a practice as 'allopathy'.
Furthermore, the commonly accepted description among homeopaths that have deigned to describe it to me certainly does NOT match modern medical practice at all, and never has since Hahnemann was alive.
A much more accurate descriptive for modern medicine is 'evidence-based' instead of 'allopathy'. Of course, you have just told me aren't interested in evidence; at least, not of the quality required to make any practice qualify as medicine. So I guess you will be sticking to 'allopathy' regardless!
regards
You need to review your research. 'Allopathy' was a term Hahnemann invented to describe stuff that he considered not homeopathy (i.e. everything he didn't agree with). There has actually never been such a practice as 'allopathy'.
Furthermore, the commonly accepted description among homeopaths that have deigned to describe it to me certainly does NOT match modern medical practice at all, and never has since Hahnemann was alive.
A much more accurate descriptive for modern medicine is 'evidence-based' instead of 'allopathy'. Of course, you have just told me aren't interested in evidence; at least, not of the quality required to make any practice qualify as medicine. So I guess you will be sticking to 'allopathy' regardless!
regards
ZepOz last decade
I'll ask the same question again, Alan. You can have a go at answering it yourself if you like.
Is this forum about solving patients' problems? Or is it about pushing homeopathy...
Is this forum about solving patients' problems? Or is it about pushing homeopathy...
ZepOz last decade
yes it is about homeopathy thats why its called abc homeopathy
and a combination of natrall
health not science and chemicals and disbelieve
i used to be the biggest disbeliver untill i was a tottaly disabled medical said i would never walk again homeopathy said lets give it ago
also mt two sons are alive after medical said no way
and a combination of natrall
health not science and chemicals and disbelieve
i used to be the biggest disbeliver untill i was a tottaly disabled medical said i would never walk again homeopathy said lets give it ago
also mt two sons are alive after medical said no way
alangail1 last decade
ZepOz,
To answer your question, we are clearly a homeopathic site, and therefore, people come here to discuss and seek help through homeopathy. In most cases, this is a decision they made prior to finding this forum - if they are seeking other solutions, there are thousands of other health forums out there, which they would likely have found instead.
However, most of the discussion does centre around solving patients' problems, and I'm sure most people posting their problems welcome non-homeopathic solutions.
Your purpose here seems to be to argue with other members. It's a bit like going to a forum about cycling, and asking why they don't all ride motorbikes instead. The simple fact is, people have a choice.
Unlike everyone else here, it seems to me that your purpose here is not to discuss homeopathy at all, but to flame the board. That being the case, I would be grateful if you could find an alternative outlet for your energies.
Regards,
Simon
To answer your question, we are clearly a homeopathic site, and therefore, people come here to discuss and seek help through homeopathy. In most cases, this is a decision they made prior to finding this forum - if they are seeking other solutions, there are thousands of other health forums out there, which they would likely have found instead.
However, most of the discussion does centre around solving patients' problems, and I'm sure most people posting their problems welcome non-homeopathic solutions.
Your purpose here seems to be to argue with other members. It's a bit like going to a forum about cycling, and asking why they don't all ride motorbikes instead. The simple fact is, people have a choice.
Unlike everyone else here, it seems to me that your purpose here is not to discuss homeopathy at all, but to flame the board. That being the case, I would be grateful if you could find an alternative outlet for your energies.
Regards,
Simon
♡ moderator last decade
Zepoz-
I believe your questions have been answered, and the moderator is correct, this discussion now serves no useful purpose. so with that, it ends.
Good luck to you.
John
I believe your questions have been answered, and the moderator is correct, this discussion now serves no useful purpose. so with that, it ends.
Good luck to you.
John
john34 last decade
Mr Moderator,
Please explain why you have banned me. I'm most puzzled.
1) I have not denigrated homeopathy in any way. In the main, I haven't even mentioned it.
2) I have not attacked any forum member in any way, nor been impolite to any of them, nor argued with their advice to patients.
3) I have never advised patients not to see their homeopath.
4) I have never advised patients to stop taking or not take any homeopathic remedy.
5) I have never denigrated patients or other posters on this forum, nor used immoderate language.
6) I have attempted to the best of my extent to remain under these highly limited conditions I have imposed on myself at all times, which far more stringent than any other posters have to work with.
7) I have put much effort into this forum in an attempt to get to know the subject better first hand.
So surely it can't be the irrelevant fact that I am not a sycophant to homeopathy that has been the only excuse to ban me?
And as for not participating in discussion about homeopathy... It's very odd, but the moment we DO begin a decent discussion on homeopathy (and I was extremely guarded in what I said so as not to offend), you see fit to call it 'flaming' on my part, and then ban me!
It seems you simply don't want me to particpate - you don't like it when I WON'T discuss, and you don't like it when I DO. Any wonder I'm puzzled?
That's not the least of it either, but it will do for a start. So would you care to explain your position?
regards
Please explain why you have banned me. I'm most puzzled.
1) I have not denigrated homeopathy in any way. In the main, I haven't even mentioned it.
2) I have not attacked any forum member in any way, nor been impolite to any of them, nor argued with their advice to patients.
3) I have never advised patients not to see their homeopath.
4) I have never advised patients to stop taking or not take any homeopathic remedy.
5) I have never denigrated patients or other posters on this forum, nor used immoderate language.
6) I have attempted to the best of my extent to remain under these highly limited conditions I have imposed on myself at all times, which far more stringent than any other posters have to work with.
7) I have put much effort into this forum in an attempt to get to know the subject better first hand.
So surely it can't be the irrelevant fact that I am not a sycophant to homeopathy that has been the only excuse to ban me?
And as for not participating in discussion about homeopathy... It's very odd, but the moment we DO begin a decent discussion on homeopathy (and I was extremely guarded in what I said so as not to offend), you see fit to call it 'flaming' on my part, and then ban me!
It seems you simply don't want me to particpate - you don't like it when I WON'T discuss, and you don't like it when I DO. Any wonder I'm puzzled?
That's not the least of it either, but it will do for a start. So would you care to explain your position?
regards
Zep__Oz last decade
i just wanted to say one thing:
Each and every one of us is completely different than the other. How can you treat everyone with the same remedy, if people are completly different. I think this is where homeopathy is strongest: treating each person for what their body needs, not what somebody elses body needs.
This is why all of the commercials have 'some people may experience nausia, headachs' etc. Because those remedies arent specifically for every person.
This was only my second post, sorry if i sould confusing!
Have a great day everyone!
Each and every one of us is completely different than the other. How can you treat everyone with the same remedy, if people are completly different. I think this is where homeopathy is strongest: treating each person for what their body needs, not what somebody elses body needs.
This is why all of the commercials have 'some people may experience nausia, headachs' etc. Because those remedies arent specifically for every person.
This was only my second post, sorry if i sould confusing!
Have a great day everyone!
doney last decade
This is probably my last post here. It appears that the moderators do not want alternative points of view put to you. Their interest is in selling products. End of story. ZepOz and I are a direct threat to that end. Their interest is not in helping people who come here. If they did, they would have welcomed people like ZepOz and I and encouraged us to post. My only surprise is that they have waited until now to act. Maybe they thought we would get bored and go away? Maybe I will. But I will be back. In the meantime, I suggest you do your own research. Find independent sources. Do not rely on places like this one or your homeopath to give you good advice.
I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if homeopathy actually did work. The world would be completely different in so many ways. One way is that Homeopathy would be accepted with nearly everyone, instead of it being ignored or only a brief mention in most medical books. If you knew you were about to be caught drunk driving a car, you would be able to get sober again by drinking a homeopathic alcohol solution.
The cream I used to cure my eczema was only a cheap one. By law, it listed the ingredients. No homeopathic ingredients are listed. Unless of course you count water.
Doney how can you treat everyone with the right remedy unless many well-conducted experiments are done? Where are they?
I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if homeopathy actually did work. The world would be completely different in so many ways. One way is that Homeopathy would be accepted with nearly everyone, instead of it being ignored or only a brief mention in most medical books. If you knew you were about to be caught drunk driving a car, you would be able to get sober again by drinking a homeopathic alcohol solution.
The cream I used to cure my eczema was only a cheap one. By law, it listed the ingredients. No homeopathic ingredients are listed. Unless of course you count water.
Doney how can you treat everyone with the right remedy unless many well-conducted experiments are done? Where are they?
robot last decade
2) I have not attacked any forum member in any way, nor been impolite to any of them, nor argued with their advice to patients.
On the contrary, it appears to me that you have been consistently argumentative. You may not have meant to be, but that is how you come across.
7) I have put much effort into this forum in an attempt to get to know the subject better first hand.
It does seem that you had decided on your point of view before coming here
You say you were banned 'the moment we DO begin a decent discussion on homeopathy', but actually this discussion has been going on for two weeks. I have not removed it from the board.
On the contrary, it appears to me that you have been consistently argumentative. You may not have meant to be, but that is how you come across.
7) I have put much effort into this forum in an attempt to get to know the subject better first hand.
It does seem that you had decided on your point of view before coming here
You say you were banned 'the moment we DO begin a decent discussion on homeopathy', but actually this discussion has been going on for two weeks. I have not removed it from the board.
♡ moderator last decade
'Do not rely on ... your homeopath to give you good advice.' This is an example of your 'alternative point of view', I suppose?
'I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if homeopathy actually did work. The world would be completely different in so many ways.' Homeopathy DOES work and as a result my world is completely different in so many ways, all of those ways for the better.
'One way is that Homeopathy would be accepted with nearly everyone' Homeopathy is accepted by those who have experienced it firsthand. If you used the wrong remedy your weren't experiencing homeopathy. (robot, if you mean that was a homeopathic cream you tried, that isn't how you 'cure' eczema. Suppress it for a while, perhaps.) That is why the first real introduction to homeopathy often requires a consult with a qualified homeopath. From there you may have the incentive to learn how to really use it.
'how can you treat everyone with the right remedy unless many well-conducted experiments are done? Where are they?' Those experimental data are provided in detail in the Materia Medica. Well tested for almost 200 years in the case of many cases. It is why there is a very high success rate with homeopathy if you have the training.
'I sometimes wonder what the world would be like if homeopathy actually did work. The world would be completely different in so many ways.' Homeopathy DOES work and as a result my world is completely different in so many ways, all of those ways for the better.
'One way is that Homeopathy would be accepted with nearly everyone' Homeopathy is accepted by those who have experienced it firsthand. If you used the wrong remedy your weren't experiencing homeopathy. (robot, if you mean that was a homeopathic cream you tried, that isn't how you 'cure' eczema. Suppress it for a while, perhaps.) That is why the first real introduction to homeopathy often requires a consult with a qualified homeopath. From there you may have the incentive to learn how to really use it.
'how can you treat everyone with the right remedy unless many well-conducted experiments are done? Where are they?' Those experimental data are provided in detail in the Materia Medica. Well tested for almost 200 years in the case of many cases. It is why there is a very high success rate with homeopathy if you have the training.
Daisy43 last decade
Zep and Robot-
I don't think it helps your case for you to be disingenuous about your motives. your behavior makes your claims to the contrary seem silly at best. anyone who exercises some basic common sense can see that you have come to the forum not to learn about or contribute to homeopathy, but to dissuade other adults from trying homeopathy at all. It would seem typical of an allopathic doctor to treat a patient as a child, not able to make their own health decisions... you are behaving in a similar way, assuming that people coming here are not smart enough to make their own health decisions... or smart enough to realize that there are no guarantees with anything, including homeopathy.
As such, the moderator is correct. the purpose of this forum is not flame wars between those who favor homeopathy and those who don't. If your personal issues require this type of confrontation, I'm sure you can find it elsewhere on the net...
Good luck,
John
I don't think it helps your case for you to be disingenuous about your motives. your behavior makes your claims to the contrary seem silly at best. anyone who exercises some basic common sense can see that you have come to the forum not to learn about or contribute to homeopathy, but to dissuade other adults from trying homeopathy at all. It would seem typical of an allopathic doctor to treat a patient as a child, not able to make their own health decisions... you are behaving in a similar way, assuming that people coming here are not smart enough to make their own health decisions... or smart enough to realize that there are no guarantees with anything, including homeopathy.
As such, the moderator is correct. the purpose of this forum is not flame wars between those who favor homeopathy and those who don't. If your personal issues require this type of confrontation, I'm sure you can find it elsewhere on the net...
Good luck,
John
john34 last decade
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