The ABC Homeopathy Forum
11 month old boy diagnosed with pertussis
Hello, my son is 11 months old. He has had a brutal cough for 5 days. We just heard today he tested positive for pertussis. He is 31 inches long and weighs 24 pounds. He seems to do fairly well through the day, the coughing spasms are bad but not as fierce as the ones at night. During the day, he is happy in between coughing fits. He has no other symptoms besides the cough. At night his coughing spasms are severe, he seems to be choking from them. Sometimes it makes him throw up.He is still breast-feeding and I am eating healthy and taking vitamin C. I am also giving him water with vitamin C in it. I am trying some essential oils like eucalyptus in a nebulizer as a breathing treatment with Saline. But I do not know if it is helping or not. Sometimes I put Saline drops in his nostrils to attempt to thin out the thick mucus.
When he was only a month old I successfully treated his symptoms of acid reflux with homeo pathic meds. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions you have to offer.
Many thanks,
Marcy
Mkrenzin on 2014-09-12
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
I would obtain Ipecacuanha 30c or 200c (prefer 200c), in liquid form, and give him a dose every 3 hours for a maximum of 3 doses. STOP if he aggravates (any symptom appears to worsen) OR if there is a very noticeable improvement in his symptoms.
If you have oral liquid dose (bottle of liquid form of the remedy) hit the bottle firmly against the palm of the hand 5 times, and place 3 drops onto his tongue or into the mouth.
Let me know how that goes.
If you can only get pillules or pellets, dissolve 3 of those into 250mls of clean water. Stir very thoroughly. Give 2 teaspoons of this. Stir thoroughly (whisk the water) before every dose. Only place the pillules/pellets in once, not each dose. Just use the same water each time.
If you have oral liquid dose (bottle of liquid form of the remedy) hit the bottle firmly against the palm of the hand 5 times, and place 3 drops onto his tongue or into the mouth.
Let me know how that goes.
If you can only get pillules or pellets, dissolve 3 of those into 250mls of clean water. Stir very thoroughly. Give 2 teaspoons of this. Stir thoroughly (whisk the water) before every dose. Only place the pillules/pellets in once, not each dose. Just use the same water each time.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
My husband just got the ipecacuanha. I decided to read about it online and it doesn't seem to closely match his symptoms. Maybe I didn't explain clearly enough. When I read the description for drosera it seemed to fit his symptoms. Should I still try the ipecacuanha since I have it? Or do you think I should use drosera instead?
Many thanks,
Marcy
Many thanks,
Marcy
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Here is the information that I read:
Drosera rotundifolia -- This homeopathic medicine is indicated when the cough is worse immediately upon lying down to bed at night and/or when the cough flares up after midnight. There is tickling and dryness in the throat, which causes spasmodic coughing. Attempts to bring up phlegm end in retching and vomiting. The violence of the cough may produce nosebleeds. Frequent coughing attacks prevent the person from catching his/her breath.
Drosera rotundifolia -- This homeopathic medicine is indicated when the cough is worse immediately upon lying down to bed at night and/or when the cough flares up after midnight. There is tickling and dryness in the throat, which causes spasmodic coughing. Attempts to bring up phlegm end in retching and vomiting. The violence of the cough may produce nosebleeds. Frequent coughing attacks prevent the person from catching his/her breath.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Dear Mkrenzin,
Evocationer is a homeopath with 20 years
experience and a practice in Australia.
I would trust his prescription. If
you click on the homeopathic remedies
shop on here and click Ipecacuanha and
see the materia medica you will see
the cough symptoms match your childs
symptoms.
I would go ahead and try the remedy-
and follow the directions of stopping after a dose if he
aggravates or improves significantly after dose one or two.
Do not dose again unless and until he goes backwards-
I don't know where you are but you are probably in a different
time zone and Evocationer can't answer you right now, so I
am answering.
Evocationer is a homeopath with 20 years
experience and a practice in Australia.
I would trust his prescription. If
you click on the homeopathic remedies
shop on here and click Ipecacuanha and
see the materia medica you will see
the cough symptoms match your childs
symptoms.
I would go ahead and try the remedy-
and follow the directions of stopping after a dose if he
aggravates or improves significantly after dose one or two.
Do not dose again unless and until he goes backwards-
I don't know where you are but you are probably in a different
time zone and Evocationer can't answer you right now, so I
am answering.
♡ simone717 9 years ago
I need to update that we started antibiotics about 12 hours ago. It is the middle of the night here now. He is very fussy and squirmy in between fits of coughing and sleep. I am trying to give him a first dose of ipecacuanha but it's very hard because he's so upset .
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
It DOES match the symptoms because I went through the repertory and looked at every symptom you gave. Ipecac was the only remedy which was found in every rubric.
However you are welcome to given him any remedy you feel will help. I looked at Drosera it just didn't score as highly as Ipec. Without seeing him in person of course I am never going to be fully confident in a prescription. I know what both these remedies look like in children with whooping cough, but I can't see him to match that knowledge to the problem.
In any emergency situation, it is quite acceptable to move from one remedy to another quite quickly. If Ipec doesn't help Dros would be my next choice.
However you are welcome to given him any remedy you feel will help. I looked at Drosera it just didn't score as highly as Ipec. Without seeing him in person of course I am never going to be fully confident in a prescription. I know what both these remedies look like in children with whooping cough, but I can't see him to match that knowledge to the problem.
In any emergency situation, it is quite acceptable to move from one remedy to another quite quickly. If Ipec doesn't help Dros would be my next choice.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
Please know that I not saying anything negative about your choice. On the contrary, When I read about each remedy, I realized that I didn't giver you a very thorough description. I am deeply grateful for your time and attention to my situation.
I am battling fear right now because it it so hard to see my baby suffer. So I think I also feel anxious about the remedies because I am so new to homeopathy.
Every night his coughing fits are worse than the previous night and it is very tiring. This night he has been very upset. I did manage to get 1 dose in about 2 1/2 hours ago. He is much calmer now and is sleeping, but I'm not sure about improvement yet.
Many thanks. I am so grateful for your support.
I am battling fear right now because it it so hard to see my baby suffer. So I think I also feel anxious about the remedies because I am so new to homeopathy.
Every night his coughing fits are worse than the previous night and it is very tiring. This night he has been very upset. I did manage to get 1 dose in about 2 1/2 hours ago. He is much calmer now and is sleeping, but I'm not sure about improvement yet.
Many thanks. I am so grateful for your support.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
It's alright I wasn't offended, I just wanted to assure you that I did consider all the symptoms you gave. I understand you are anxious and that is not surprising.
Do your best to make sure he gets another dose if he continues to display those symptoms or they disappear but then reappear. Acutes often require several doses to resolve.
Do your best to make sure he gets another dose if he continues to display those symptoms or they disappear but then reappear. Acutes often require several doses to resolve.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
Is the goal to relieve the coughing fits, or is it for him to vomit? I'm just trying to understand, as I don't know how it works.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
How is he now?
the goal is to stop coughing, vomiting and any
symptoms.
When you take a remedy, the goal is to match the
symptoms bc the body will not allow the illness
and the similar match of the remedy to be there.
The life force is stimulated to do the work of putting
things back into balance. The life force does the work, the remedy match is a catalyst
by being a close similar.
Many times after a dose, the patient will get worse
symptoms for a short time -then feel much better. And then
in 4 hours or the next day ( it all depends on the person)
you could see the original symptoms start to return and
then you would give another dose.
Or you could just see he is better and then in a few hours
or a day start to have things return, then you give another
dose.
Dosing is not automatic bc everyone is different in response. For instance,
some people were on here a few years ago, baby had same thing, and they
had a remedy bottle of Spongia. However, the bottle said give 4 pills every
4 hours ( which is wrong, but manufacturers are required in some places to
put directions on remedies or one thing the remedy is for)
So they gave one dose of Spongia, the cough and all symptoms got 90 percent
better in an hour. But then, bc they did not know, at 4 hours they gave another
dose and the child returned to the state of what he was before the first dose.
They overdosed him, and I advised that they just wait and it would wear off- it
wore off in a couple hours and the child only needed the one dose to get well,
he never relapsed.
the goal is to stop coughing, vomiting and any
symptoms.
When you take a remedy, the goal is to match the
symptoms bc the body will not allow the illness
and the similar match of the remedy to be there.
The life force is stimulated to do the work of putting
things back into balance. The life force does the work, the remedy match is a catalyst
by being a close similar.
Many times after a dose, the patient will get worse
symptoms for a short time -then feel much better. And then
in 4 hours or the next day ( it all depends on the person)
you could see the original symptoms start to return and
then you would give another dose.
Or you could just see he is better and then in a few hours
or a day start to have things return, then you give another
dose.
Dosing is not automatic bc everyone is different in response. For instance,
some people were on here a few years ago, baby had same thing, and they
had a remedy bottle of Spongia. However, the bottle said give 4 pills every
4 hours ( which is wrong, but manufacturers are required in some places to
put directions on remedies or one thing the remedy is for)
So they gave one dose of Spongia, the cough and all symptoms got 90 percent
better in an hour. But then, bc they did not know, at 4 hours they gave another
dose and the child returned to the state of what he was before the first dose.
They overdosed him, and I advised that they just wait and it would wear off- it
wore off in a couple hours and the child only needed the one dose to get well,
he never relapsed.
♡ simone717 9 years ago
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond in such detail. I am learning. Thank you for your help.
Usually throughout the night he has 3 or 4 severe coughing spells. He coughs so hard, red in the face, whooping sound on the intake breath, sometimes gags, long stringy drool drips out of his mouth, sometimes throws up. Just when they seem like they won't end, they do. Last night started out seeming worse. I gave him one dose around midnight last night. He had another spell at 3:30 am, another at 4:30, another at 5:20, I lost track after that. They seemed to be possibly less in intensity and shorter. I intended to give him another dose , but I was so exhausted that all I could manage was getting him through the coughing spells and then dozing afterwards. The morning time he does the best and throughout the day is more manageable. Evening on it gets worse. Do you recommend another dose, or does slight improvement mean to back off? If I give another dose, shall I wait until this evening? Or give it to him now?
Thanks,
Marcy
Usually throughout the night he has 3 or 4 severe coughing spells. He coughs so hard, red in the face, whooping sound on the intake breath, sometimes gags, long stringy drool drips out of his mouth, sometimes throws up. Just when they seem like they won't end, they do. Last night started out seeming worse. I gave him one dose around midnight last night. He had another spell at 3:30 am, another at 4:30, another at 5:20, I lost track after that. They seemed to be possibly less in intensity and shorter. I intended to give him another dose , but I was so exhausted that all I could manage was getting him through the coughing spells and then dozing afterwards. The morning time he does the best and throughout the day is more manageable. Evening on it gets worse. Do you recommend another dose, or does slight improvement mean to back off? If I give another dose, shall I wait until this evening? Or give it to him now?
Thanks,
Marcy
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Hi- Give him another dose now-
he is only improving very slightly.
See how he does in 4 hours or
so.
If it is still the same then give him one
more dose.
Sometimes you have to try 3 doses to
see if it is really doing anything or not,
and if not, go to the next remedy.
[message edited by simone717 on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:42:54 BST]
he is only improving very slightly.
See how he does in 4 hours or
so.
If it is still the same then give him one
more dose.
Sometimes you have to try 3 doses to
see if it is really doing anything or not,
and if not, go to the next remedy.
[message edited by simone717 on Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:42:54 BST]
♡ simone717 9 years ago
No slight improvement does not meant to stop treatment. You should only stop if the improvement is significant and marked. Unless that happens, I want you to give him 3 doses then we can assess the situation and decide what to do next.
He must have enough doses to match the intensity of the illness.
He must have enough doses to match the intensity of the illness.
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
So I gave him a second dose yesterday at 2:00 pm and he seemed to be a little better, in better spirits, and even wanted to eat a little more than before. He still had some intense spells that ended in a gag/wretch, but they were fewer. I gave him a third dose at 6:00 pm and he seemed still better over the next 5 or 6 hours. The spells were much shorter, the coughing was not quite as harsh and hardly any whooping. Not much gagging/wretching. Then around 6 hours later, the severe and longer spells returned with lots of choking, and some whooping. He had two spells twenty minutes apart, then a spell two hours later, and another one hour later. THat brings us to the present here and he is sleeping now. THese last few spells it seems he is really choking on mucus and is unable to get it out. It is very sad.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
That reaction makes me think the potency may not be high enough. Hmmm... I don't want to leave him in this state too long - can you get both Drosera 200 and Ipec 1M?
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
A bad spell for him is around 100 coughs or more, but a couple of hours after I last emailed you, he started doing better again. His spells were around 15 - 25 coughs every 1/2 hour to an hour. They also seemed drier and he seemed a little congested in his nasal passages. He slept pretty well the rest of the night in between coughing fits. I don't know if he improved because it was closer to sunrise or not, because he is always at his best in the morning and gets worse at night. I'm sorry I didn't reply to you sooner, but my husband watched him for the early morning so I could rest.
In light of this improvement, what do you recommend?
Thank you again so much for all of your help.
In light of this improvement, what do you recommend?
Thank you again so much for all of your help.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Also, to be clear, when his spells decreased in number of coughs, the severity of the cough decreased also. Fewer whoops too.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
One more question:
If we were to successfully rid him of his cough, would it be ok? What would happen to all the mucus if he wasn't coughing it all up?
If we were to successfully rid him of his cough, would it be ok? What would happen to all the mucus if he wasn't coughing it all up?
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Hi! Just wanted to let you know that we went through this with our boy when he was 11 months old too! It was rough and lasted about 2 months. We went to see a classical homeopath and the remedy that helped the most for us was Spongia. It didn't cure him but it stopped that hard coughing in it's tracks. We also tried Drosera and Pertussinum (the remedy made from the bacteria) and tho homeopathy didn't take the illness away right away, it did extremely lessen the severity of the symptoms and shorten it! Good luck to you, you are doing a great job! Check mothering.com too for some really great info on vitamin C dosing for pertussis. (In the form of sodium ascorbate)
aprilm 9 years ago
Aprilm,
Thank you for the encouragement! I need it! How much spongia did you give your baby and in what form?
Thanks,
Marcy
Thank you for the encouragement! I need it! How much spongia did you give your baby and in what form?
Thanks,
Marcy
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Pretty sure my homeopath recommended a dose of 200C, but I only had access to 30C pellets, so she told me to give those 3 times in one day a couple hours apart.
When I asked her why she tried Spongia first (as opposed to Drosera, Ipecac, etc.), she told me that she and her colleagues had been having the most luck with Spongia that year. She went on to explain that sometimes during epidemics (pertussis was running rampant though our local community at the time) certain remedies will stand out over others, and that particular year, Spongia was taking center stage .
Like I said, it didn't completely cure him , but it did stop those really super hard coughing fits where he couldn't seem to catch his breath . And it slowed down a lot of that thick production that the pertussis bacteria produces. Oh it was aweful, I feel for you, mama! Trust me though, you will come out of this a stronger person! I know you're scared, just keep praying your babe, and doing everything you can to support the immune system. Some of those mamas on mothering.com swear by a sodium ascorbate protocol. I can't remember the protocol, but all you have to do is google 'sodium ascorbate for pertussis mothering.com' and some of the threads should pop up.
[message edited by aprilm on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:15:58 BST]
When I asked her why she tried Spongia first (as opposed to Drosera, Ipecac, etc.), she told me that she and her colleagues had been having the most luck with Spongia that year. She went on to explain that sometimes during epidemics (pertussis was running rampant though our local community at the time) certain remedies will stand out over others, and that particular year, Spongia was taking center stage .
Like I said, it didn't completely cure him , but it did stop those really super hard coughing fits where he couldn't seem to catch his breath . And it slowed down a lot of that thick production that the pertussis bacteria produces. Oh it was aweful, I feel for you, mama! Trust me though, you will come out of this a stronger person! I know you're scared, just keep praying your babe, and doing everything you can to support the immune system. Some of those mamas on mothering.com swear by a sodium ascorbate protocol. I can't remember the protocol, but all you have to do is google 'sodium ascorbate for pertussis mothering.com' and some of the threads should pop up.
[message edited by aprilm on Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:15:58 BST]
aprilm 9 years ago
Marcy-
If you are in USA, there are two very experienced homeopaths ( who also teach) who will do acute problems like
this on the phone with follow up support-
Google mary Aspinwall ( Santa Barbara,
and Lia Bello ( New Mexico- also a nurse)
they charge $50 for this.
Part of the problem on here is the time difference going on-and Availability.
This forum was never intended to be a clinic in the first place, it only
works out bc people volunteer, and it is really not set up as an emergency
clinic. You can always go online to some sites 24/7 and probably
get answers from sites like Just ask ( a homeopath).
If you are in USA, there are two very experienced homeopaths ( who also teach) who will do acute problems like
this on the phone with follow up support-
Google mary Aspinwall ( Santa Barbara,
and Lia Bello ( New Mexico- also a nurse)
they charge $50 for this.
Part of the problem on here is the time difference going on-and Availability.
This forum was never intended to be a clinic in the first place, it only
works out bc people volunteer, and it is really not set up as an emergency
clinic. You can always go online to some sites 24/7 and probably
get answers from sites like Just ask ( a homeopath).
♡ simone717 9 years ago
It is true that in epidemics you may see a particular remedy come up in many people.
It does seem like the Ipec has helped though - how are you giving it to him. Pellets in water or hitting a bottle of liquid and giving drops?
It does seem like the Ipec has helped though - how are you giving it to him. Pellets in water or hitting a bottle of liquid and giving drops?
♡ Evocationer 9 years ago
I was only able to get pellets so I dissolved them in distilled water per your instructions. I haven't given him any more since the third dose which was 24 hours ago. He's doing much better today, but we'll see how the night hours go. Please advise if and when I should give him more. The improvement is such a relief.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
Also, I do have drosera and antimonium tartaricum that I got just in case you might advise me to use. The nearest store I can purchase at is an hours drive so I can get other things but it is a ways away.
Mkrenzin 9 years ago
To post a reply, you must first LOG ON or Register
Important
Information given in this forum is given by way of exchange of views only, and those views are not necessarily those of ABC Homeopathy. It is not to be treated as a medical diagnosis or prescription, and should not be used as a substitute for a consultation with a qualified homeopath or physician. It is possible that advice given here may be dangerous, and you should make your own checks that it is safe. If symptoms persist, seek professional medical attention. Bear in mind that even minor symptoms can be a sign of a more serious underlying condition, and a timely diagnosis by your doctor could save your life.