The ABC Homeopathy Forum
Vaginal Tear latest Post Page 3 of 6
This is just a forum. Assume posts are not from medical professionals.
I think what scares people first is the name of the medicine itself. They think that nitric acid is going to enter their system. Yes, but the quantity is infinitesmal and no scientific test can establish whether by the time the medicine is potentised to potency 30, the medicine(Nitric Acid)is there in it or not. Researh is going on to find out how it works, not only on this therapy but also on all, so called, Energy medicines eg. Magnetic therapy,Aucupuncture,Pressure therapy,etc. But the fact is that it works.
I have not taken it on myself because I am not female. But I have given to others for fissure and that what vaginal tear is. As I stated above no body yet knows how it works but you will feel the result the very next day. The complete cure will depend upon the case.
You can read the properties of this medicine invarious Homeopathic books.
We on this Forum are dedicated volunteers. Have faith in us.There are so many on the Forum like me and if this medicine was going to harm instead of helping somebody by now would have corrected me.
I have not taken it on myself because I am not female. But I have given to others for fissure and that what vaginal tear is. As I stated above no body yet knows how it works but you will feel the result the very next day. The complete cure will depend upon the case.
You can read the properties of this medicine invarious Homeopathic books.
We on this Forum are dedicated volunteers. Have faith in us.There are so many on the Forum like me and if this medicine was going to harm instead of helping somebody by now would have corrected me.
sahai last decade
Hi Lou Lou. To help heal the tear A&D ointment works well and helps stop the itch when it is healing. But when ever I do have sex I still tear a little bit in the six o'clock position but it's not as bad and I dab tea tree oil on it and later A&D ointment at night and it heals faster. I think the skin lost it's elasticity from using the steroid creams. But the Beta glucan is suppose to promote healthy tissue growth as well and I no longer have pain after sex and no more infections.
Cyndi
Cyndi
cyndi last decade
Hi loulou667,
This is Jeanne311, You had mentioned that you would like to swap email addresses, here is my email address: anewcreation at charter.net , I had to put the word AT in place of the symbol since they do not allow email addresses to be posted.
It will be changing since I'm moving in a week and will have to get a new email address. But if you send me an email, I will reply with the new address when I have it set up.
Thanks,
Jeanne
This is Jeanne311, You had mentioned that you would like to swap email addresses, here is my email address: anewcreation at charter.net , I had to put the word AT in place of the symbol since they do not allow email addresses to be posted.
It will be changing since I'm moving in a week and will have to get a new email address. But if you send me an email, I will reply with the new address when I have it set up.
Thanks,
Jeanne
jeanne311 last decade
Hi Cyndi-
Where do you buy it? I need to try something at this point. My email address is
the-gibster at comcast.net.
Feel free anyone who wants to email me.
Thanks for your feedback.
Glad it worked for you.
Nancy
Where do you buy it? I need to try something at this point. My email address is
the-gibster at comcast.net.
Feel free anyone who wants to email me.
Thanks for your feedback.
Glad it worked for you.
Nancy
tggrr2 last decade
I buy Beta Glucan from youngagain dot com. A&D ointment you can buy at almost any drug store Target,Walmart. Tea tree oil I also buy from Target or Walmart-it's in the vitamin sections.You can also find it at Health food stores but it may be more expensive. I have also heard that Emu oil is good topically too. I found this at the Health food stores.
Also I think the person talking about Nitric Acid probably means to say Nitric Oxide. I did a search on it and came across raysahelian dot com. Then click on Nitric Oxide and read about it. I'll email you later.
Cyndi
Also I think the person talking about Nitric Acid probably means to say Nitric Oxide. I did a search on it and came across raysahelian dot com. Then click on Nitric Oxide and read about it. I'll email you later.
Cyndi
cyndi last decade
cyndi
Nitric acid is the common name used in common parlance. The official name of the Homeopathic medicine is Nitricum Acidicum. If you read back on the thread you will be clear about it.
Nitric acid is the common name used in common parlance. The official name of the Homeopathic medicine is Nitricum Acidicum. If you read back on the thread you will be clear about it.
sahai last decade
Cyndi,
I dont think A&D ointment is available over here (in the UK), is that its full name?
I've been looking up Emu oil and all websites seem to advise against using it on open/broken skin?
What is the Beta Glucan and how did it help you?
Thanks!
xx
I dont think A&D ointment is available over here (in the UK), is that its full name?
I've been looking up Emu oil and all websites seem to advise against using it on open/broken skin?
What is the Beta Glucan and how did it help you?
Thanks!
xx
loulou667 last decade
Sahai, Bless your heart for trying to help, but these are the most hard-headed women I have ever come across in my life.
They post their problem on the homeopathic website and get free homeopathic advice and then won't take it. So they will keep trying this and that instead of spending the what -- $12.00? it would take to order the Nitric Acid and just try it. You would think a vaginal tear that causes such pain and prevents sexual relations would be worth risking a few bucks for a cure...
Maybe some people really don't want to be helped.
R.
They post their problem on the homeopathic website and get free homeopathic advice and then won't take it. So they will keep trying this and that instead of spending the what -- $12.00? it would take to order the Nitric Acid and just try it. You would think a vaginal tear that causes such pain and prevents sexual relations would be worth risking a few bucks for a cure...
Maybe some people really don't want to be helped.
R.
ruth45 last decade
Ruth,
I've only just joined this list as a result of a google search for the condition itself.
For one, I am unable to try much of this homeopathic relief because of accessibility in the UK.
Secondly, there have been several recommendations here - when your inundated with several completely different formulas its difficult to say "right I'm going to try that one."
Upon reading up on Nitric Acid online, I havn't yet found a testimony of its worth on vaginal fissures. I'm a bit wary of testing anything on such a sensitive area of my body.
As already established, its possible that we have severe sensitivity down there as it is, without further irritating the skin with something unknown.
Yes it may work perfectly on other types of cuts on the skin but the vaginal area is a completely different type of skin. We have found a variety of things which can help relieve pain (however moderately) and sometimes help heal the fissures/cuts quicker, but nothing which will rid them entirely.
I have even heard of women who have undergone surgery to have the bits of skin affected removed, to have them return.
Doctors have prescribed medicines to us (such as aclovar-herpes creams) which have only assisted in making things worse. You cannot say for sure without any testimonies what damage/healing this formula might do to the area.
I appreciate the suggestions but would like to hear from someone who had tried it and had relief, before exploring that venture on my own.
Louisa x
I've only just joined this list as a result of a google search for the condition itself.
For one, I am unable to try much of this homeopathic relief because of accessibility in the UK.
Secondly, there have been several recommendations here - when your inundated with several completely different formulas its difficult to say "right I'm going to try that one."
Upon reading up on Nitric Acid online, I havn't yet found a testimony of its worth on vaginal fissures. I'm a bit wary of testing anything on such a sensitive area of my body.
As already established, its possible that we have severe sensitivity down there as it is, without further irritating the skin with something unknown.
Yes it may work perfectly on other types of cuts on the skin but the vaginal area is a completely different type of skin. We have found a variety of things which can help relieve pain (however moderately) and sometimes help heal the fissures/cuts quicker, but nothing which will rid them entirely.
I have even heard of women who have undergone surgery to have the bits of skin affected removed, to have them return.
Doctors have prescribed medicines to us (such as aclovar-herpes creams) which have only assisted in making things worse. You cannot say for sure without any testimonies what damage/healing this formula might do to the area.
I appreciate the suggestions but would like to hear from someone who had tried it and had relief, before exploring that venture on my own.
Louisa x
loulou667 last decade
Homeopathy works on symptoms irrespective of the location and name of the disease. Also,one medicine may cover several symptoms. If you see any good book of Homeopathy Materia Medica you will find that Nitric Acid has special seat of action the outlets of the body where the mucous membrane and skin meet eg. rectum,vagina,mouth, nose. These are all sensitive areas. I have treated cases pertaining to rectum and mouth and it has worked fast like injections. As far as the fissure is concerned, the location is similar in the case of rectum and vagina and there is no reason why it should not work for vagina.
You have seen that in all the cases discussed on this forum only allopathy has been tried and it has not given cure except temporary relief includng surgery mentioned by you.The fact that these cases have been posted on Homeopathy forum shows that patients have felt that the time has come to give Homeopathy a try. It is not fair to demand the testimonial for guarantee of cure from me which the concerned allopaths did not provide. You have to have faith in us also as you have in allopathy.
You have seen that in all the cases discussed on this forum only allopathy has been tried and it has not given cure except temporary relief includng surgery mentioned by you.The fact that these cases have been posted on Homeopathy forum shows that patients have felt that the time has come to give Homeopathy a try. It is not fair to demand the testimonial for guarantee of cure from me which the concerned allopaths did not provide. You have to have faith in us also as you have in allopathy.
sahai last decade
Sahai,
I appreciate you taking time out to reply to these messages.
I have never tried any homeopathy before on this area (except for the relief that certain oils may bring) and so obviously I am a little suspicious....mainly because of the testing that hasn't been done.
I dont expect a testimony of cure, only that it isn't going to further disturb the area.
Also like I say, i am unsure if i can get the products here in the UK.
thanks
xx
I appreciate you taking time out to reply to these messages.
I have never tried any homeopathy before on this area (except for the relief that certain oils may bring) and so obviously I am a little suspicious....mainly because of the testing that hasn't been done.
I dont expect a testimony of cure, only that it isn't going to further disturb the area.
Also like I say, i am unsure if i can get the products here in the UK.
thanks
xx
loulou667 last decade
I have bought Homeopathic medicines in London without any problem about 25 yrs. ago.
You can decide about vaginal tear later.
But if you come across a case of rectal fissure(where streaks of blood are seen on stool due to fissure on the walls of rectum caused by hard and large stool passing as a result of constipation through the rectum),do think of Nitric Acid.
Pardon me, it is this realistic similarity that brings in mind the possibilty of relief by this medicine in vaginal tear also.
You can decide about vaginal tear later.
But if you come across a case of rectal fissure(where streaks of blood are seen on stool due to fissure on the walls of rectum caused by hard and large stool passing as a result of constipation through the rectum),do think of Nitric Acid.
Pardon me, it is this realistic similarity that brings in mind the possibilty of relief by this medicine in vaginal tear also.
sahai last decade
Hi Loulou and all. Thanks for the info on the Nitric Acid. I'm going to purchase some and see which works better,Nitric Acid or what I've been doing. Will the Nitric Acid keep yeast infections under control as well as healing the tear? How long should I take it?
Any way,Loulou-A&D ointment stands for the vitamins A and vitamin D. There are some off brands but they don't seem to work as well as the Original A&D ointment. I've also heard good things about Desitin. But I'm having to use Beta Glucan(made from cell wall bakers yeast with1/3 and 1/6 linkages 200 mgs-it jump starts your immune systom and kills bacterial,fungal,and viral infections and promotes healthy skin growth.)And I dab tea tree oil on the skin. But I've decided to order the Nitric Acid to see if that's better than using all those other things.
Thanks everyone!
Cyndi
Any way,Loulou-A&D ointment stands for the vitamins A and vitamin D. There are some off brands but they don't seem to work as well as the Original A&D ointment. I've also heard good things about Desitin. But I'm having to use Beta Glucan(made from cell wall bakers yeast with1/3 and 1/6 linkages 200 mgs-it jump starts your immune systom and kills bacterial,fungal,and viral infections and promotes healthy skin growth.)And I dab tea tree oil on the skin. But I've decided to order the Nitric Acid to see if that's better than using all those other things.
Thanks everyone!
Cyndi
cyndi last decade
A&D actually is better. Destin actually made things worse for me. Just wanted to let you know.
Thank you for all the info. Will try anything at this point.
Nancy
Thank you for all the info. Will try anything at this point.
Nancy
tggrr2 last decade
Suziemb
As I was going through the postings from the beginning, I found that, in flood stream of vagina-tear complaints, your symptoms (posted on 31 May 05), "burning,vaginal area red and swollen,strong urge to urinate all of a sudden, white discharge", got drowned. If there is status quo, your medicine is Petroselinum Q(mother tincture). Please take 1 drop in a tea-spoon of distilled water/boiled drinking-water and put it in the mouth and hold for a little while before running down the throat. Please see my posting on 19 Aug 05 for precautions reg odour.
As I was going through the postings from the beginning, I found that, in flood stream of vagina-tear complaints, your symptoms (posted on 31 May 05), "burning,vaginal area red and swollen,strong urge to urinate all of a sudden, white discharge", got drowned. If there is status quo, your medicine is Petroselinum Q(mother tincture). Please take 1 drop in a tea-spoon of distilled water/boiled drinking-water and put it in the mouth and hold for a little while before running down the throat. Please see my posting on 19 Aug 05 for precautions reg odour.
sahai last decade
In a healthy person fungal infections are not allowed to occur (kept under control) by the natural flora of the body unless they get disturbed by antibiotics etc.
If you are still having fungal infection,you can use the remedy for it till fungus is there. The tear repair by nitric acid will be of a permanent nature. Repair time will depend on your condition(a few days).
If you are still having fungal infection,you can use the remedy for it till fungus is there. The tear repair by nitric acid will be of a permanent nature. Repair time will depend on your condition(a few days).
sahai last decade
Jeanne311,
Hello, for the past year, I also experience a minor tear at the "6:00 position" only after having sex. About three and a half years ago, I had HPV and the area was "burned off" and I also had to use condylox. I never tore after that until about 9 months ago and it won't go away now but my skin in that treated area did feel thinner. Fortunately, it doesn't hurt any other time and heals within two days. I tried lubrication and it will still sometimes tear. My Gyn. gave me premarin and I used it consistently for 2 weeks, once a night, and it was working great when I was on it. My vagina stopped tearing after sex. I tried stopping the cream after a few weeks and my problem came back. It seems that premarin has helped you, how long have you used it, do you have to continue to use it?
Sahai, I looked into Nitricum Acidum and when I went to the online store, it just gave me a huge list of symptoms. Any way you can describe to me how Nitiricum Acidum will help my case of tearing at the vagina? I seem to come across this with talk of warts. Is it a liquid that I apply directly to my skin? What kind fo side effects should I anticipate?
Thanks for your time, this forum is great.
Hello, for the past year, I also experience a minor tear at the "6:00 position" only after having sex. About three and a half years ago, I had HPV and the area was "burned off" and I also had to use condylox. I never tore after that until about 9 months ago and it won't go away now but my skin in that treated area did feel thinner. Fortunately, it doesn't hurt any other time and heals within two days. I tried lubrication and it will still sometimes tear. My Gyn. gave me premarin and I used it consistently for 2 weeks, once a night, and it was working great when I was on it. My vagina stopped tearing after sex. I tried stopping the cream after a few weeks and my problem came back. It seems that premarin has helped you, how long have you used it, do you have to continue to use it?
Sahai, I looked into Nitricum Acidum and when I went to the online store, it just gave me a huge list of symptoms. Any way you can describe to me how Nitiricum Acidum will help my case of tearing at the vagina? I seem to come across this with talk of warts. Is it a liquid that I apply directly to my skin? What kind fo side effects should I anticipate?
Thanks for your time, this forum is great.
hannao last decade
hannao
Please go backwards on this thread, read my earlier postings on this subject and then bring out your query.
Please go backwards on this thread, read my earlier postings on this subject and then bring out your query.
sahai last decade
Hannao,
You mentioned above that you were diagnosed with HPV, one of the commonalities of this case (in everyone i've heard talk about it!) is that they were misdiagnosed originally with HPV. Make sure you double check with your doctor and have swab tests to confirm this if you've not done so already.
I hope that somehow we can find a cure.
Am currently trying to find a Homeopathy store in the UK where i can pop in and discuss nitricum acidium with them and buy some.
Going to see the doc in the next couple of weeks so will keep all updated.
Lou x
You mentioned above that you were diagnosed with HPV, one of the commonalities of this case (in everyone i've heard talk about it!) is that they were misdiagnosed originally with HPV. Make sure you double check with your doctor and have swab tests to confirm this if you've not done so already.
I hope that somehow we can find a cure.
Am currently trying to find a Homeopathy store in the UK where i can pop in and discuss nitricum acidium with them and buy some.
Going to see the doc in the next couple of weeks so will keep all updated.
Lou x
loulou667 last decade
I am glad I found this forum. I felt like I was the only one before. I have a small tear in the 6 oclock position as well. No irritation or burning, luckily. It happened 4 months ago when I had sex on my wedding night. The tear keeps reopening when I stretch. I went to my OB Dr 1 month ago. She prescribed Silver Sulfadiazine Cream 1% and said to apply it after each bathroom visit. The cream is used for burns. It seemed to work very well and I completely healed in 3 weeks (when all redness was gone). My OB Dr advised after healing to stretch my vagina before having sex (I am really small and my husband is a very good size). I waited 2 more weeks after healing to stretch and with only light stretching I have split again
Discouraged that this cycle will never end.
salamander last decade
Hi jelybeen,
did you try the "hem-relief" product?
If yes, how did it work out for you. I have been thinking of trying it out.
Thanks,
Vin
did you try the "hem-relief" product?
If yes, how did it work out for you. I have been thinking of trying it out.
Thanks,
Vin
akeyla28 last decade
I was searching for something else and came across this so I will jump in. While I do not think my situation is as serious as some of the other people's it has been an ongoing issue for over 40 years. The best and most effective treatment has been the easiest....baby oil. No idea of the medical implications, just know it helps. I use a little baby oil all over my body, including "that area" a couple of times a week, no more. I rub it on while still standing in the shower and dripping wet and do not towel off, just slip on robe. I have also made a point to apply it if I anticipated the possibility of sex within a few hours, not just before as that opens up other issues. It helped years ago in healing serious hemroids associated with pregnancy and I have been doing it since. Makes my skin feel better, look better and while I am allergic to almost everything else, this seems to be fine. I have found the better quality baby oil preferred over the bargan brands. Just a thought, might bring some relief.
dogwood last decade
After sex a few days ago, I used a mirror to check out a painful spot on my vagina and was terrified to see a tear around my vaginal opening. I've had a non stop bout of yeast infections, bacterial vaginosis (BV?), and bladder infections for the last 3 months, all being treated with various antibiotics. I wonder if this has caused a thinning that I've read about on this post? What should I do to 1. get rid of all my bacterial imbalances for good, and 2. heal this tear?? Please help!!!
Nina21 last decade
Hi I am new to this forum and also have some vaginal tearing. I find it very disappointing to see that most women do not heal from this...I have been doing some research and came upon these articles... I have not tried this nor do I recommend it just thought some people might find this interesting. Sorry for the length but it wouldnt let me paste the website.
Super Glue for Repairing Tears
First do a thorough exam to determine the extent of the tear. Then we are off to informed consent. The decision about who, what, when, where, why and how the tear will be repaired Must be meticulous. Then, clean the wound, dry the tissues after placing a piece of gauze into the vagina just deep enough to absorb the lochial flow and keep the perineal area dry. Air drying is ok but a hair dryer is great. Approximate the edges of the tear and apply the glue to either side of the tear and then after pulling the sides together, put on one or two more strips to meld it all together. The strips are thin, not globby! The perineum should be monitored very closely, glue reapplied if there is separation. The glue falls off as a plaque some days later,. It is even more important for the mom to be clean, off her feet, no stairs or car rides, and no tailor sitting. The edges of the tear will not heal properly if the edges are pulled apart. The best healing takes place with any alternative, with mom in bed cuddling and nursing that new baby!
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Just ran across a synopsis of an article from Pediatrics 1996:98:12-14. Some peds emergency depts did a study comparing suturing to Histoacryl Blue (a type of superglue) in repairing pediatric lacerations. There were 30 kids in each group. Time involved in repair was 7 minutes with superglue as opposed to 17 minutes for suturing. Pain during repair was significantly less with superglue and the parents were quite impressed! And, photos the the wounds before and after closure (at 1 wk and 2 months follow-up visits) were assessed by 2 plastic surgeons who were blinded to method of repair. They declared similar or better healing outcomes with superglue. Additionally, because superglue peels off spontaneously in 5-8 days, there is no need for suture removal.
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First of all, the tear needs to be fresh, clean, and fairly shallow with straight edges that lie together on their own. The glue is applied to bridge over the closed edges, not inside on raw surfaces. (Covering the raw surfaces with SuperGlue could actually PREVENT the surfaces from knitting together!) Insert a tampon first and insert your finger between the edges and pull it out to bring the edges forward slightly. This ensures that edges won't roll inward toward each other, but meet perfectly. You could also use a tissue forceps for this. Hold gauze below apex to catch any drips and apply tiny dots of glue sparingly where the edges meet. You can also apply a bead of tiny droplets to bridge the edges. Use a hair dryer or fan to dry, which takes about 30 seconds. The adhesive stiffens as it dries and prolonged soaking isn't too good for it. It will flake off by itself in usually less than a week. Some rare allergic reactions are inflammation and swelling. I learned everything I know about this from one of my favorite teachers, Anne Frye.
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I've just seen the 10 day pp results of my first attempt with supergluing a laceration. She did not want sutures, but wanted to do something about it, so the husband went out and got some OTC superglue. Worked great. Too great. Superglued my glove to her pubic hair, then a gauze pad to her thigh. It does dry as immediately as it does when using it for other things. I was amazed at how it held in spite of the "wetness of the area." The "crusty" of the glued area fell off spontaneously at four days. It looks the same as if it had been sutured, except I do think it healed much faster. The mom is THRILLED, but she talks to a couple of other women who I assisted, one got sutured, one didn't and wishes she had....they want to know why I didn't superglue them!! ;)
I'm sold on the idea enough to try it again when it seems appropriate. My current definition of appropriate is when I look at the laceration and say, "Ooooh, if I only had some tape that would stick...."
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What is your reasoning for using the tissue paper? Is this so you can't overdrip on the tissues?
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Yes, it's all a control issue. I like to hold tissue edges together in a nice apposition and I had too much trouble with gluing my gloves to the repair. Then the repairs would pull apart as I struggled to get free. When I soak a tissue, though, and then glue my glove to the tissue instead, I can pull my glove away, the tissue tears, and I'm free without disturbing the repair.
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Would it work to superglue the perineum after suturing the vaginal vault?? I ask this because it seems less painful. Considering the vault has no nerve endings, I would assume that you could repair without anesthetic or undue pain for the client. Possible or not ???
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I've never used super glue. Do you think that a first degree would heal just as well without it? I'm afraid that I might make the situation worse if I got glue in a place that kept the would edges from healing together. Could you elaborate?
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I do use super glue for 1st degree tears, the gaping kind you look at and say, "Geez, if I could only tape it together for a week." It works wonderfully!!!! I have been considering making it part of the birth supplies list that parents have to acquire...it won't go to waste. They can always use it around the house, and it only costs $2. I do carry the medical super glue, but it is significantly more expensive, and there are times when I run out, and I like to know it's on hand with the parents.
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I get medical super glue from a vet supply house (Jeffers). I think I remember that it has somewhat of a different chem composition...I can't remember exactly what it is, but it's documented somewhere. Honestly, I'm questioning if it's as effective, but generally, it's ok, and I strive to use it more frequently. It is tinted light purple which makes it easier to visualize. It comes with tiny pipettes, so that you can use the same bottle for multiple people. I have no problem, however, with using OTC super glue. There was an article written somewhere QUESTIONING (not proving) if super glue would burn tissues. That has not been my experience. The women do not feel it at all.
As I said, I use super glue for the types of tears which are 1st degree and gaping...the kind that obviously will probably not heal well on their own because the edges are too far apart...the kind you look at and know that if the outside would just sit together, she might heal fine with nothing. The glue does just that...holds the outside together so the insides can heal (tears heal from the inside out).
The idea is not to put the glue into the raw part of the tear. The idea is to create a BRIDGE of glue across the outside surface of the skin (think "taping it together"). I have spilled glue onto the raw parts of the skin, and we have had no detrimental effects, but I can imagine that it would deter healing if those surfaces are coated. I place a fairly think bond, so that she can feel it (but not so thick that it easily peels off). That is part of the healing process for me...if she can feel it tugging when she assumes certain positions, it reminds her to be cautious. For most women, it falls off about day 5-8, just enough time to do its job (if necessary, we redo it). The first few times I used it, the women soaked daily, and the bond stayed intact. Then I started having a few come off (I went and redid it). They all approximated well in the end except one, but it was a hassle to have to go back and redo it. Now, I am experimenting with having women shower only, no soaks, and I have had NONE of the glue come off (but the glue didn't come off in the first few I did who DID soak, so that doesn't say anything). I just tell them it may decrease the likelihood that it will come off, and since these are women who are motivated to heal without large intervention, they agree it's worth it.
As far as holding it in place, I don't really. The super glue works on bottoms as it does on anything else...FAST. I have glued gloves to pubic hair, and I have had a few anuses that got glued shut when the glue dripped down...no big deal...we just clean it off and laugh about it. The glue's a little tough to work with at first, until you understand how it drips. I once found a newer type, a GEL super glue, and I loved it, but I haven't been able to find it lately. It was thicker, so it didn't run off as quickly. You learn to like certain brands with certain applicator tips.
I've had one client on whom it just did not hold...she was Japanese, though I can't imagine that has anything to do with it. I was amazed as I'd already used it several times with great success with other women, and it just would not adhere to her skin. She adamantly refused suturing completely. She did not heal well.
As far as ethics...well, primarily, my ethics start with me and the families I serve. When someone is refusing suturing but is amenable to super glue, it's more ethical to use it than not suture for a tear that needs approximation. I don't see it as a huge risk really. I know there is always the possibility it could become an issue, but as homebirth midwives, we do lots of things that aren't documented in medical literature, and hell, DOCS do lots of things that are not documented in literature (or are clearly documented as poor practice, but they do it anyway). I try to practice carefully, but I don't know of any midwife who does everything by the book...sometimes, the book just ain't written yet and we are ahead of the game! We can't make all our choices based on whether it's been tried and proven, because that is the only way things DO get tried and proven. Anne Frye wrote an article on it a few years back which I am sure one of our more "file-it-away" type midwives here would have.
Some ERs are using it for facial wounds on children, finding less scarring and quicker healing and significantly decreased emotional trauma (at least one study was done). It's a pretty old idea.
Bottom line, the clients LOVE it, and it works. They are so thrilled with the results, and so am I. My birth asst had a baby last month, and she opted for super glue. It fell off at day 2 (she was up way too much), so we re-did it. It worked great, and she is so excited to have learned first-hand a midwifery trick that she can carry with her into her own practice when she becomes a midwife.
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I've now used super glue on two minor 1st degrees with excellent results.
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I recently heard one OB say that it cannot be used on mucous membranes...but au contraire.
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I have used Nexaband for two 2 nd degree tears. Had absolutely wonderful results. Both mothers refused any sutures.
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I've used this stuff a few times, and really like it. It's a snap to use. The way I purchased it, it came from a midwifery supplier (bought at a MANA conference), with syringes so that you could use the same bottle several times without contaminating it. Just fill the syringes with how much you need (a little goes a long way), then take off the needle (if you want) to squirt it on the area to be repaired. I only use it for first degrees (not quite sure I want to rely on it for a muscle repair), that are a little more than superficial. It has worked quite well, and the moms are very happy with it, since there are no stitches or xylocaine involved. The "superglue" eventually sloughs off once tissue starts healing back on its own.
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The company I use the most, Revival, has 3 brands of skin adhesive. Vetbond 3ml #15-251 $12.25, Nexaband liquid 2ml #95-210 $16.95 and Skin Bond 4 oz liquid #95-212 $12.45
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Medical superglue is great. The kind that has been approved for humans has a slightly different chemical composition than the veterinary superglue. I avoid the 3M brand (which I think is Vetbond), because it's exactly the same chemical comp as superglue. If I'm gonna just use superglue, then I'm going to pay superglue prices, not the more expensive vet product prices. Nexaband is a different comp except for one of their products which is the same as the Dermabond that is the human equivalent. Medical superglue has been used for years on humans, though I doubt they've ever done trials on perineal use. They're using it more and more on peds.
It is wonderful for first degree tears that need SOMEthing. I agree that it's not the thing to do for muscle tears, since those will shrink back and not often just heal without being held together. The glue is not placed inside the vault; it's used on the outside only. The ladies on whom I've used it have been so happy to avoid suturing. The glue sloughs off in about 6 days or so...they can even bathe with it. A few times, I've had the glue fall off too soon, so I've just reapplied it...usually, the women have admitted to picking at it or thinking it was dried blood and pulled it off accidentally.
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I know a midwife who cuts up a strip of gauze and uses medical-grade adhesive to glue it in place over the tear - kind of like an iron-on patch, but without the iron. It allows air and fluid to pass through nicely and stays in place for about four days.
ps --as to the question of WHY someone would glue rather than suture: some women absolutely refuses stitches, many midwives are legally prohibited from suturing, glued wounds don't sting as much a sutured wounds when moms urinate, and surgeons report that glued wounds heal very nicely and very quickly, probably faster than sutured wounds.
SuperGlue not for 2nd degree tears
2nd degree tears are, by definition, those which involve some muscle damage. Muscles tend to retract into the tissue on either side and are deep to the surface of the repair, making them totally unsuitable for repair with tissue adhesive. Tissue adhesives are designed to act like a butterfly bandage, one or more thin lines of glue are applied to bridge across the skin surface on either side of the tear (perpendicular to the line of the tear) it should never be placed down inside the tear or applied to both sides of the raw tissue and then pressed together, as you would do if gluing an object because it will form a film that impairs cell regeneration and prevents oxygen from getting to the tissues. Therefore, it is unsuitable for all but the most shallow tears. I agree, in most cases, if tissue adhesive is suitable, so is leaving it to heal on its own. Plus tissue adhesive is full of chemicals. It is glue. Does that really sound like such a swell thing to be putting near raw tissue? Suture is bad enough in this regard.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Importance of Medical Grade vs. Over-The-Counter Super Glue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From Anne Frye's Healing Passage, 5th edition, p. 44.:
Tissue adhesive: In 1959, a variety of cyanoacrylate adhesives were developed, some types of which are now used for wound closure in Canada and Europe. Some midwives have assumed that retail cyanoacrylate adhesives such as Super Glue are identical to medical adhesives. However, retail products contain methyl alcohol because it is much cheaper to produce, and are manufactured to industrial, not medical, standards. Cyanoacrylates cure by a chemical reaction called polymerization, which produces heat. Methyl ester has a pronounced heating action when it contacts tissue and may lead to tissue necrosis during metabolism.
Medical grade products contain either butyl, isobutyl or octyl esters. They are bacteriostatic and painless to apply, produce minimal thermal reaction when applied to dry skin and break down harmlessly in tissue. They are essentially inert once dry and have been shown not to be carcinogenic. Butyl products are rigid when dry, but provide a strong bond. Available octyl products are more flexible when dry, but produce a weaker bond. Ideally the wound to be closed is fresh, clean, fairly shallow, with straight edges that lie together on their own. The glue is applied to bridge over the closed edges; it should not be used within the wound, where it will impair epithelization. The only FDA approved adhesives suitable for use as suture alternatives are veterinary products; n-butyl-cyanoacrylate tissue adhesives Vetbond (3M) and Nexaband liquid and octyl-based Nexaband S/C (intended for topical skin closure when deep sutures have been placed). Histoacryl Blue (butyl based) (Davis & Geck) and Tissu-Glu (isobutyl based) (Medi-West Pharmaceuticals) are sold in Canada for human use. DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) or acetone serve as removers. (Helmstetter, 1995; Quinn & Kissick, 1994)
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Well, I disagree. Real-life experience (not theory) is that OTC superglue does NOT cause burns or tissue necrosis!! An awful lot of folks have posted here about using OTC superglues-- they haven't posted any experience of burns or necrosis, have they?
Anne's a friend of mine; but even the best of friends can disagree. We've both looked at the same information; we drew different conclusions
Also -- I'm very certain that Anne has never personally used either surgical adhesive OR superglue. I think this is a simple instance of over-emphasis on theory....
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I disagree about the relative importance of using medical grade surgical glue.
While I agree that medical grade super glue is probably (theoretically) superior to the OTC stuff, I do have to defer to the real-life experience of a LARGE number of non-insured Americans who have been using OTC superglue for many years.
I first heard of it years ago from a woman who described how she treated a boy for shallow buckshot wounds. It didn't matter that the boy was an innocent bystander on a school play-yard - the family had no money to pay an emergency room medical bill. So the wounds were washed out -- EXTREMELY WELL!!!! -- and tacked with superglue. I was impressed with the healing when I saw it after a week or so....
Even the outlaws and other "fringe classes" all know the basics of selfgluing -- they make certain the wound is clean and leave a space open for drainage....
OTC superglue is classic folk medicine!
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Used it for the first time at 2 of the most recent births I did. It is SO fantastic!! I sutured with chromic gut in the interior, then closed the exterior by dripping it criss-cross fashion over the exterior. No pain (as outer stitches always hurt/I don't use lidocaine) and it healed beautifully!! I am sold on it.
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Ordering Medical Grade SuperGlue
1-800-JEFFERS
Nexaband wound closure "SuperGlue" cyanoacrylate
item #FACU $7.65 for a 2 ml tube w/extender applicators
Livestock/equine shoulder-length OB gloves (for waterbirth)
item #ATG2 $9.90 for a box of 100
There's a $5 service charge for orders under $50. If you order for a group of midwives, you can order 2 boxes of gloves and 4 tubes of Nexaband for just over $50, to avoid the service charge.
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From: (Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: Dr. Weil
Date: 17 May 1997
>
>>> Dr. Weil is also amazing. This man has
>changed my life, and I can also guarantee the same promise from
>THOUSANDSIs this the same Dr. Weil who feels that cracked skin on the heels is due
>to the dry atmosphere (he suffers from it himself), and recommends that
>superglue be used to bind the edges together? He also recommended using
>superglue to bind the edges of cuts. Guess we have to sift the wheat
>from the chaff.
Superglue was used by trauma surgeons in Vietnam to glue the edges
of lacerated livers together (ever try to SEW liver?). Works great.
It also works perfectly fine in normal skin wounds, and is non-toxic.
The only reason it hasn't been approved by the FDA for this purpose is
that the studies would cost millions, and who's going to pay them?
Superglue has long since passed off-patent.
I work occasionally at a private research lab which does
experimental surgical research on animals. In dogs, we had a lot of
problem with oozing and infection at sites where arterial catheters
were left in. Now we superglue them and all that problem is gone. The
glue doesn't interfere with healing, and it seals excellently. It is
as resistent to abscessing as staples, and seals far better. For
wounds in animals which have been anticoagulated, it's a godsend.
Survival animals which have catheters pulled later suffer no ill
effects, and the wounds heal fine.
Weil has many areas where he's out to lunch, but superglue isn't one
of them.
Steve Harris, M.D.
Search for Google's copy of this article
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From: (Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Wounds requiring stitching and Coloskin
Date: 19 Dec 1998 07:00:52 GMT
>>Basically it's just "Super Glue" (cyano-something-or-other). If there
>>really is a difference between the hardware store version and the much
>>more expensive medical version, I don't know what it is.
>
>You'd probably have to ask on sci.chem exactly what the difference
>is, but this is the basis:
>
>Superglue as normally formulated is either too good or not good enough. A
>healing wound requires an elastic and permeable seal. Superglue from the
>hardware store is too stiff and makes a fairly impermeable seal. It has
>taken a very long time (20 years? longer?) to discover a modification to
>superglue which allows the wound to breathe without being too weak to
>hold well.
>
>The glue bond also has to degrade in the skin as new tissue grows in,
>or it will cause a bigger scar than the original wound would.
>For very superficial wounds, where the bond is -only- in dead skin,
>it's not a big problem.
>
> HTH
> geoff steckel
I'm skeptical. For one thing, we use ordinary superglue on dog
surgical wounds and it works great (this is closure of fairly large
wound beds which are leaking heparinized blood). For another, I know
commercial cyanoacrylate "superglue" was being used in Vietnam in the
60's for things like liver trauma (you can't sew liver) and it worked
great there, too. The holdup was not some magic reformulation (though
there may have been minor improvements). The holdup was the FDA and
the medical patent process. Same old, same old.
Steve Harris, M.D.
Fixing small cuts and finger nails with Krazy Glue?
Date: 12 Jan 1999 18:27:31 GMT
Re:"I guess "read the label" means nothing. While I did not get out my
crazy glue, it seems to me that it specifically says not to get it on
your skin. For me, cleaning, putting on some kind of otc stuff to stop
infections, and a bandaid seem easier and safer. Yes, I also heard or
read that there is a special glue that doctors are trying on small wounds
in ERs. That stuff has been tested (I hope) on humans and is used by MDs
not by you or me."
Let's try again to explain it.
The label says not to get it on our skin because it bonds skin. THAT'S WHY WE
WANT TO USE IT ON DAMAGED SKIN. You DON'T dip your finger in Krazy Glue before
picking your nose or going to the bathroom, but you DO dab it into a minor,
clean skin lesion to bond it shut in certain situations.
And such situations include those in which a bandaid won't stay on. Ever try
sailing a wet boat or windsurfer or doing yardwork with bandaids over bloody
blisters on your palms? Doesn't work. A dab of Krazy Glue, 3 minutes' drying
time, and your palms are like new for a couple of days. No blood gets out, no
dirt gets in, and no pain. That's GOOD. Dermatologists RECOMMEND it for such
applications.
A special glue for ERs and small wounds? [Maybe] tested on humans? Heck, the
stuff was DESIGNED for and has been USED IN major surgery for many years. It
BEGAN as surgical cement, and THEN trickled down to K-Mart. The major
differencees (to this discussion) between the stuff surgeons use after a
Caesarean and the stuff Johnny used to glue the cat to the dog are the price,
liability, and FDA approval.
When the new windsurfing season rips the young callouses right off my hands, I
have three choices:
1. Stop sailing for two weeks (and then rip my palms off again anyway).
2. Put on Vaseline, sport bandaids, duct tape, and gloves, try to sail with all
that crap on my hands, change it all twice a day, put up with all the pain and
blood, and hope it doesn't get infected before it heals in a week or two.
3. Slap on some Krazy Glue and NEVER THINK ABOUT AGAIN until this time next
year.
Guess which option windsurfing dermatologists select.
Mike
Search for Google's copy of this article
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Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Fixing small cuts and finger nails with Krazy Glue?
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:01:05 GMT
>Just read an article in a health magazine (while waiting at drugstore,
>so don't have the reference) that a new type of "dermaglue" has been
>developed for drs to use in emergency rooms, instead of stitching up
>cuts. They don't plan to market it to us regular people, because the
>substance has to be used carefully. Anyway, the article ended by saying
>that now drs in emergency rooms wouldn't have to continue fixing their
>own cuts by using Krazy Glue. So I guess it is not uncommon.
The stuff is called "Dermabond" and I love it. It allows us to close
wounds in seconds without anesthesia or needles. Quite handy in a
pediatric ER, where a one year-old with a laceration on the face might
previously need to be pharmacologically sedated, which takes a lot of
time, extra staff and monitoring, and is not without risks, so that we
can suture the wound carefully with a tiny needle. With Dermabond,
you simply hold the kid down and glue it shut. No risky medicines, no
needles, and the parents don't have to sit around for an hour waiting
for their kid to wake up.
--
Jonathan R. Fox, M.D.
Super Glue for Repairing Tears
First do a thorough exam to determine the extent of the tear. Then we are off to informed consent. The decision about who, what, when, where, why and how the tear will be repaired Must be meticulous. Then, clean the wound, dry the tissues after placing a piece of gauze into the vagina just deep enough to absorb the lochial flow and keep the perineal area dry. Air drying is ok but a hair dryer is great. Approximate the edges of the tear and apply the glue to either side of the tear and then after pulling the sides together, put on one or two more strips to meld it all together. The strips are thin, not globby! The perineum should be monitored very closely, glue reapplied if there is separation. The glue falls off as a plaque some days later,. It is even more important for the mom to be clean, off her feet, no stairs or car rides, and no tailor sitting. The edges of the tear will not heal properly if the edges are pulled apart. The best healing takes place with any alternative, with mom in bed cuddling and nursing that new baby!
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Just ran across a synopsis of an article from Pediatrics 1996:98:12-14. Some peds emergency depts did a study comparing suturing to Histoacryl Blue (a type of superglue) in repairing pediatric lacerations. There were 30 kids in each group. Time involved in repair was 7 minutes with superglue as opposed to 17 minutes for suturing. Pain during repair was significantly less with superglue and the parents were quite impressed! And, photos the the wounds before and after closure (at 1 wk and 2 months follow-up visits) were assessed by 2 plastic surgeons who were blinded to method of repair. They declared similar or better healing outcomes with superglue. Additionally, because superglue peels off spontaneously in 5-8 days, there is no need for suture removal.
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First of all, the tear needs to be fresh, clean, and fairly shallow with straight edges that lie together on their own. The glue is applied to bridge over the closed edges, not inside on raw surfaces. (Covering the raw surfaces with SuperGlue could actually PREVENT the surfaces from knitting together!) Insert a tampon first and insert your finger between the edges and pull it out to bring the edges forward slightly. This ensures that edges won't roll inward toward each other, but meet perfectly. You could also use a tissue forceps for this. Hold gauze below apex to catch any drips and apply tiny dots of glue sparingly where the edges meet. You can also apply a bead of tiny droplets to bridge the edges. Use a hair dryer or fan to dry, which takes about 30 seconds. The adhesive stiffens as it dries and prolonged soaking isn't too good for it. It will flake off by itself in usually less than a week. Some rare allergic reactions are inflammation and swelling. I learned everything I know about this from one of my favorite teachers, Anne Frye.
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I've just seen the 10 day pp results of my first attempt with supergluing a laceration. She did not want sutures, but wanted to do something about it, so the husband went out and got some OTC superglue. Worked great. Too great. Superglued my glove to her pubic hair, then a gauze pad to her thigh. It does dry as immediately as it does when using it for other things. I was amazed at how it held in spite of the "wetness of the area." The "crusty" of the glued area fell off spontaneously at four days. It looks the same as if it had been sutured, except I do think it healed much faster. The mom is THRILLED, but she talks to a couple of other women who I assisted, one got sutured, one didn't and wishes she had....they want to know why I didn't superglue them!! ;)
I'm sold on the idea enough to try it again when it seems appropriate. My current definition of appropriate is when I look at the laceration and say, "Ooooh, if I only had some tape that would stick...."
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What is your reasoning for using the tissue paper? Is this so you can't overdrip on the tissues?
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Yes, it's all a control issue. I like to hold tissue edges together in a nice apposition and I had too much trouble with gluing my gloves to the repair. Then the repairs would pull apart as I struggled to get free. When I soak a tissue, though, and then glue my glove to the tissue instead, I can pull my glove away, the tissue tears, and I'm free without disturbing the repair.
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Would it work to superglue the perineum after suturing the vaginal vault?? I ask this because it seems less painful. Considering the vault has no nerve endings, I would assume that you could repair without anesthetic or undue pain for the client. Possible or not ???
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I've never used super glue. Do you think that a first degree would heal just as well without it? I'm afraid that I might make the situation worse if I got glue in a place that kept the would edges from healing together. Could you elaborate?
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I do use super glue for 1st degree tears, the gaping kind you look at and say, "Geez, if I could only tape it together for a week." It works wonderfully!!!! I have been considering making it part of the birth supplies list that parents have to acquire...it won't go to waste. They can always use it around the house, and it only costs $2. I do carry the medical super glue, but it is significantly more expensive, and there are times when I run out, and I like to know it's on hand with the parents.
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I get medical super glue from a vet supply house (Jeffers). I think I remember that it has somewhat of a different chem composition...I can't remember exactly what it is, but it's documented somewhere. Honestly, I'm questioning if it's as effective, but generally, it's ok, and I strive to use it more frequently. It is tinted light purple which makes it easier to visualize. It comes with tiny pipettes, so that you can use the same bottle for multiple people. I have no problem, however, with using OTC super glue. There was an article written somewhere QUESTIONING (not proving) if super glue would burn tissues. That has not been my experience. The women do not feel it at all.
As I said, I use super glue for the types of tears which are 1st degree and gaping...the kind that obviously will probably not heal well on their own because the edges are too far apart...the kind you look at and know that if the outside would just sit together, she might heal fine with nothing. The glue does just that...holds the outside together so the insides can heal (tears heal from the inside out).
The idea is not to put the glue into the raw part of the tear. The idea is to create a BRIDGE of glue across the outside surface of the skin (think "taping it together"). I have spilled glue onto the raw parts of the skin, and we have had no detrimental effects, but I can imagine that it would deter healing if those surfaces are coated. I place a fairly think bond, so that she can feel it (but not so thick that it easily peels off). That is part of the healing process for me...if she can feel it tugging when she assumes certain positions, it reminds her to be cautious. For most women, it falls off about day 5-8, just enough time to do its job (if necessary, we redo it). The first few times I used it, the women soaked daily, and the bond stayed intact. Then I started having a few come off (I went and redid it). They all approximated well in the end except one, but it was a hassle to have to go back and redo it. Now, I am experimenting with having women shower only, no soaks, and I have had NONE of the glue come off (but the glue didn't come off in the first few I did who DID soak, so that doesn't say anything). I just tell them it may decrease the likelihood that it will come off, and since these are women who are motivated to heal without large intervention, they agree it's worth it.
As far as holding it in place, I don't really. The super glue works on bottoms as it does on anything else...FAST. I have glued gloves to pubic hair, and I have had a few anuses that got glued shut when the glue dripped down...no big deal...we just clean it off and laugh about it. The glue's a little tough to work with at first, until you understand how it drips. I once found a newer type, a GEL super glue, and I loved it, but I haven't been able to find it lately. It was thicker, so it didn't run off as quickly. You learn to like certain brands with certain applicator tips.
I've had one client on whom it just did not hold...she was Japanese, though I can't imagine that has anything to do with it. I was amazed as I'd already used it several times with great success with other women, and it just would not adhere to her skin. She adamantly refused suturing completely. She did not heal well.
As far as ethics...well, primarily, my ethics start with me and the families I serve. When someone is refusing suturing but is amenable to super glue, it's more ethical to use it than not suture for a tear that needs approximation. I don't see it as a huge risk really. I know there is always the possibility it could become an issue, but as homebirth midwives, we do lots of things that aren't documented in medical literature, and hell, DOCS do lots of things that are not documented in literature (or are clearly documented as poor practice, but they do it anyway). I try to practice carefully, but I don't know of any midwife who does everything by the book...sometimes, the book just ain't written yet and we are ahead of the game! We can't make all our choices based on whether it's been tried and proven, because that is the only way things DO get tried and proven. Anne Frye wrote an article on it a few years back which I am sure one of our more "file-it-away" type midwives here would have.
Some ERs are using it for facial wounds on children, finding less scarring and quicker healing and significantly decreased emotional trauma (at least one study was done). It's a pretty old idea.
Bottom line, the clients LOVE it, and it works. They are so thrilled with the results, and so am I. My birth asst had a baby last month, and she opted for super glue. It fell off at day 2 (she was up way too much), so we re-did it. It worked great, and she is so excited to have learned first-hand a midwifery trick that she can carry with her into her own practice when she becomes a midwife.
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I've now used super glue on two minor 1st degrees with excellent results.
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I recently heard one OB say that it cannot be used on mucous membranes...but au contraire.
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I have used Nexaband for two 2 nd degree tears. Had absolutely wonderful results. Both mothers refused any sutures.
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I've used this stuff a few times, and really like it. It's a snap to use. The way I purchased it, it came from a midwifery supplier (bought at a MANA conference), with syringes so that you could use the same bottle several times without contaminating it. Just fill the syringes with how much you need (a little goes a long way), then take off the needle (if you want) to squirt it on the area to be repaired. I only use it for first degrees (not quite sure I want to rely on it for a muscle repair), that are a little more than superficial. It has worked quite well, and the moms are very happy with it, since there are no stitches or xylocaine involved. The "superglue" eventually sloughs off once tissue starts healing back on its own.
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The company I use the most, Revival, has 3 brands of skin adhesive. Vetbond 3ml #15-251 $12.25, Nexaband liquid 2ml #95-210 $16.95 and Skin Bond 4 oz liquid #95-212 $12.45
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Medical superglue is great. The kind that has been approved for humans has a slightly different chemical composition than the veterinary superglue. I avoid the 3M brand (which I think is Vetbond), because it's exactly the same chemical comp as superglue. If I'm gonna just use superglue, then I'm going to pay superglue prices, not the more expensive vet product prices. Nexaband is a different comp except for one of their products which is the same as the Dermabond that is the human equivalent. Medical superglue has been used for years on humans, though I doubt they've ever done trials on perineal use. They're using it more and more on peds.
It is wonderful for first degree tears that need SOMEthing. I agree that it's not the thing to do for muscle tears, since those will shrink back and not often just heal without being held together. The glue is not placed inside the vault; it's used on the outside only. The ladies on whom I've used it have been so happy to avoid suturing. The glue sloughs off in about 6 days or so...they can even bathe with it. A few times, I've had the glue fall off too soon, so I've just reapplied it...usually, the women have admitted to picking at it or thinking it was dried blood and pulled it off accidentally.
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I know a midwife who cuts up a strip of gauze and uses medical-grade adhesive to glue it in place over the tear - kind of like an iron-on patch, but without the iron. It allows air and fluid to pass through nicely and stays in place for about four days.
ps --as to the question of WHY someone would glue rather than suture: some women absolutely refuses stitches, many midwives are legally prohibited from suturing, glued wounds don't sting as much a sutured wounds when moms urinate, and surgeons report that glued wounds heal very nicely and very quickly, probably faster than sutured wounds.
SuperGlue not for 2nd degree tears
2nd degree tears are, by definition, those which involve some muscle damage. Muscles tend to retract into the tissue on either side and are deep to the surface of the repair, making them totally unsuitable for repair with tissue adhesive. Tissue adhesives are designed to act like a butterfly bandage, one or more thin lines of glue are applied to bridge across the skin surface on either side of the tear (perpendicular to the line of the tear) it should never be placed down inside the tear or applied to both sides of the raw tissue and then pressed together, as you would do if gluing an object because it will form a film that impairs cell regeneration and prevents oxygen from getting to the tissues. Therefore, it is unsuitable for all but the most shallow tears. I agree, in most cases, if tissue adhesive is suitable, so is leaving it to heal on its own. Plus tissue adhesive is full of chemicals. It is glue. Does that really sound like such a swell thing to be putting near raw tissue? Suture is bad enough in this regard.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Importance of Medical Grade vs. Over-The-Counter Super Glue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From Anne Frye's Healing Passage, 5th edition, p. 44.:
Tissue adhesive: In 1959, a variety of cyanoacrylate adhesives were developed, some types of which are now used for wound closure in Canada and Europe. Some midwives have assumed that retail cyanoacrylate adhesives such as Super Glue are identical to medical adhesives. However, retail products contain methyl alcohol because it is much cheaper to produce, and are manufactured to industrial, not medical, standards. Cyanoacrylates cure by a chemical reaction called polymerization, which produces heat. Methyl ester has a pronounced heating action when it contacts tissue and may lead to tissue necrosis during metabolism.
Medical grade products contain either butyl, isobutyl or octyl esters. They are bacteriostatic and painless to apply, produce minimal thermal reaction when applied to dry skin and break down harmlessly in tissue. They are essentially inert once dry and have been shown not to be carcinogenic. Butyl products are rigid when dry, but provide a strong bond. Available octyl products are more flexible when dry, but produce a weaker bond. Ideally the wound to be closed is fresh, clean, fairly shallow, with straight edges that lie together on their own. The glue is applied to bridge over the closed edges; it should not be used within the wound, where it will impair epithelization. The only FDA approved adhesives suitable for use as suture alternatives are veterinary products; n-butyl-cyanoacrylate tissue adhesives Vetbond (3M) and Nexaband liquid and octyl-based Nexaband S/C (intended for topical skin closure when deep sutures have been placed). Histoacryl Blue (butyl based) (Davis & Geck) and Tissu-Glu (isobutyl based) (Medi-West Pharmaceuticals) are sold in Canada for human use. DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) or acetone serve as removers. (Helmstetter, 1995; Quinn & Kissick, 1994)
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Well, I disagree. Real-life experience (not theory) is that OTC superglue does NOT cause burns or tissue necrosis!! An awful lot of folks have posted here about using OTC superglues-- they haven't posted any experience of burns or necrosis, have they?
Anne's a friend of mine; but even the best of friends can disagree. We've both looked at the same information; we drew different conclusions
Also -- I'm very certain that Anne has never personally used either surgical adhesive OR superglue. I think this is a simple instance of over-emphasis on theory....
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I disagree about the relative importance of using medical grade surgical glue.
While I agree that medical grade super glue is probably (theoretically) superior to the OTC stuff, I do have to defer to the real-life experience of a LARGE number of non-insured Americans who have been using OTC superglue for many years.
I first heard of it years ago from a woman who described how she treated a boy for shallow buckshot wounds. It didn't matter that the boy was an innocent bystander on a school play-yard - the family had no money to pay an emergency room medical bill. So the wounds were washed out -- EXTREMELY WELL!!!! -- and tacked with superglue. I was impressed with the healing when I saw it after a week or so....
Even the outlaws and other "fringe classes" all know the basics of selfgluing -- they make certain the wound is clean and leave a space open for drainage....
OTC superglue is classic folk medicine!
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Used it for the first time at 2 of the most recent births I did. It is SO fantastic!! I sutured with chromic gut in the interior, then closed the exterior by dripping it criss-cross fashion over the exterior. No pain (as outer stitches always hurt/I don't use lidocaine) and it healed beautifully!! I am sold on it.
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Ordering Medical Grade SuperGlue
1-800-JEFFERS
Nexaband wound closure "SuperGlue" cyanoacrylate
item #FACU $7.65 for a 2 ml tube w/extender applicators
Livestock/equine shoulder-length OB gloves (for waterbirth)
item #ATG2 $9.90 for a box of 100
There's a $5 service charge for orders under $50. If you order for a group of midwives, you can order 2 boxes of gloves and 4 tubes of Nexaband for just over $50, to avoid the service charge.
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From: (Steven B. Harris)
Subject: Re: Dr. Weil
Date: 17 May 1997
>
>>> Dr. Weil is also amazing. This man has
>changed my life, and I can also guarantee the same promise from
>THOUSANDSIs this the same Dr. Weil who feels that cracked skin on the heels is due
>to the dry atmosphere (he suffers from it himself), and recommends that
>superglue be used to bind the edges together? He also recommended using
>superglue to bind the edges of cuts. Guess we have to sift the wheat
>from the chaff.
Superglue was used by trauma surgeons in Vietnam to glue the edges
of lacerated livers together (ever try to SEW liver?). Works great.
It also works perfectly fine in normal skin wounds, and is non-toxic.
The only reason it hasn't been approved by the FDA for this purpose is
that the studies would cost millions, and who's going to pay them?
Superglue has long since passed off-patent.
I work occasionally at a private research lab which does
experimental surgical research on animals. In dogs, we had a lot of
problem with oozing and infection at sites where arterial catheters
were left in. Now we superglue them and all that problem is gone. The
glue doesn't interfere with healing, and it seals excellently. It is
as resistent to abscessing as staples, and seals far better. For
wounds in animals which have been anticoagulated, it's a godsend.
Survival animals which have catheters pulled later suffer no ill
effects, and the wounds heal fine.
Weil has many areas where he's out to lunch, but superglue isn't one
of them.
Steve Harris, M.D.
Search for Google's copy of this article
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From: (Steven B. Harris)
Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Wounds requiring stitching and Coloskin
Date: 19 Dec 1998 07:00:52 GMT
>>Basically it's just "Super Glue" (cyano-something-or-other). If there
>>really is a difference between the hardware store version and the much
>>more expensive medical version, I don't know what it is.
>
>You'd probably have to ask on sci.chem exactly what the difference
>is, but this is the basis:
>
>Superglue as normally formulated is either too good or not good enough. A
>healing wound requires an elastic and permeable seal. Superglue from the
>hardware store is too stiff and makes a fairly impermeable seal. It has
>taken a very long time (20 years? longer?) to discover a modification to
>superglue which allows the wound to breathe without being too weak to
>hold well.
>
>The glue bond also has to degrade in the skin as new tissue grows in,
>or it will cause a bigger scar than the original wound would.
>For very superficial wounds, where the bond is -only- in dead skin,
>it's not a big problem.
>
> HTH
> geoff steckel
I'm skeptical. For one thing, we use ordinary superglue on dog
surgical wounds and it works great (this is closure of fairly large
wound beds which are leaking heparinized blood). For another, I know
commercial cyanoacrylate "superglue" was being used in Vietnam in the
60's for things like liver trauma (you can't sew liver) and it worked
great there, too. The holdup was not some magic reformulation (though
there may have been minor improvements). The holdup was the FDA and
the medical patent process. Same old, same old.
Steve Harris, M.D.
Fixing small cuts and finger nails with Krazy Glue?
Date: 12 Jan 1999 18:27:31 GMT
Re:"I guess "read the label" means nothing. While I did not get out my
crazy glue, it seems to me that it specifically says not to get it on
your skin. For me, cleaning, putting on some kind of otc stuff to stop
infections, and a bandaid seem easier and safer. Yes, I also heard or
read that there is a special glue that doctors are trying on small wounds
in ERs. That stuff has been tested (I hope) on humans and is used by MDs
not by you or me."
Let's try again to explain it.
The label says not to get it on our skin because it bonds skin. THAT'S WHY WE
WANT TO USE IT ON DAMAGED SKIN. You DON'T dip your finger in Krazy Glue before
picking your nose or going to the bathroom, but you DO dab it into a minor,
clean skin lesion to bond it shut in certain situations.
And such situations include those in which a bandaid won't stay on. Ever try
sailing a wet boat or windsurfer or doing yardwork with bandaids over bloody
blisters on your palms? Doesn't work. A dab of Krazy Glue, 3 minutes' drying
time, and your palms are like new for a couple of days. No blood gets out, no
dirt gets in, and no pain. That's GOOD. Dermatologists RECOMMEND it for such
applications.
A special glue for ERs and small wounds? [Maybe] tested on humans? Heck, the
stuff was DESIGNED for and has been USED IN major surgery for many years. It
BEGAN as surgical cement, and THEN trickled down to K-Mart. The major
differencees (to this discussion) between the stuff surgeons use after a
Caesarean and the stuff Johnny used to glue the cat to the dog are the price,
liability, and FDA approval.
When the new windsurfing season rips the young callouses right off my hands, I
have three choices:
1. Stop sailing for two weeks (and then rip my palms off again anyway).
2. Put on Vaseline, sport bandaids, duct tape, and gloves, try to sail with all
that crap on my hands, change it all twice a day, put up with all the pain and
blood, and hope it doesn't get infected before it heals in a week or two.
3. Slap on some Krazy Glue and NEVER THINK ABOUT AGAIN until this time next
year.
Guess which option windsurfing dermatologists select.
Mike
Search for Google's copy of this article
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Newsgroups: sci.med
Subject: Re: Fixing small cuts and finger nails with Krazy Glue?
Date: Thu, 14 Jan 1999 15:01:05 GMT
>Just read an article in a health magazine (while waiting at drugstore,
>so don't have the reference) that a new type of "dermaglue" has been
>developed for drs to use in emergency rooms, instead of stitching up
>cuts. They don't plan to market it to us regular people, because the
>substance has to be used carefully. Anyway, the article ended by saying
>that now drs in emergency rooms wouldn't have to continue fixing their
>own cuts by using Krazy Glue. So I guess it is not uncommon.
The stuff is called "Dermabond" and I love it. It allows us to close
wounds in seconds without anesthesia or needles. Quite handy in a
pediatric ER, where a one year-old with a laceration on the face might
previously need to be pharmacologically sedated, which takes a lot of
time, extra staff and monitoring, and is not without risks, so that we
can suture the wound carefully with a tiny needle. With Dermabond,
you simply hold the kid down and glue it shut. No risky medicines, no
needles, and the parents don't have to sit around for an hour waiting
for their kid to wake up.
--
Jonathan R. Fox, M.D.
rhalpin last decade
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